Do you need to be a multi-millionaire to race PRO? (3 Viewers)

[Toejam]

Nothing is wrong with the math, you just have two numbers and left the rest out. If they are loosing $150K an event, how come they are at every race, year after year? Because they are making money.

I'll bet that even John Forces Best season he didn't come close to breaking even!

 

[MM]

I'll bet that even John Forces Best season he didn't come close to breaking even!

Then where did he get his money from?......I don't understand what you mean by breaking even? Did his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell no! Did his sponsorship money + his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell yes!

 

[BigDaddyB]

Nothing is wrong with the math, you just have two numbers and left the rest out. If they are loosing $150K an event, how come they are at every race, year after year? Because they are making money.

Because when you are racing off somebody elses money you can do that, hey the American way have Joe Smuck pay for your fun. What's at risk heaven forbid its your money.In a sport you take great pleasure in doing.

 

[BigDaddyB]

Then where did he get his money from?......I don't understand what you mean by breaking even? Did his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell no! Did his sponsorship money + his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell yes!

Mr. Minick I appreciate your candid post. I believe that is the way this game is played. Nothing wrong with the way it is conducted but soon or later the pool is going to dry up because of the risk adversion. This why the big boys ante up the cost. Less competition means more money in sponsorship for the select few.

 

[mike]

Worrying about what might happen in the future is wasting time.

 

[team23rulz]

Do you guys really believe that Schumacher and Force are out there losing money? I've had the fortune of meeting Don Schumacher, and he is a business man through and through. He would not be drag racing if he didn't turn a profit. You guys aren't looking at the complete picture. Let me add some color to the black and white. (My numbers will be for illustration only)

Let's just say it takes $4 mil to race a full TF or FC season. I'll borrow Forces car for an example. He is getting funding from Ford, Castrol, Brand Source, and AAA. Let's say just on John's car he is getting $2.5mil for the full season from sponsors. Only covering half of the cost right? Ok, well John wins a lot (15x?) so he is racking up some money from his performance. Let's say he gets a total of $1 mil in winnings (and contingencies). So we're at $3mil (again, just on John's car). Here's the part everyone's forgetting. How many John Force T-shirts do you see in the pits? What about all of the other stuff that he puts his name on a sells. How much money do you think he is pulling in from that? Go to John Force's online store or his apparel trailer on the midway and look at how much different items he is selling. Do you think he can bring in the final $500k to break even doing that? His T-shirts sell for $25!

I'm just saying...sponsorship isn't the only form of income for race teams.

But to answer the topic question, I'll go with the good ole saying 'It takes money to make money!'

 

[BigDaddyB]

Do you guys really believe that Schumacher and Force are out there losing money? I've had the fortune of meeting Don Schumacher, and he is a business man through and through. He would not be drag racing if he didn't turn a profit. You guys aren't looking at the complete picture. Let me add some color to the black and white. (My numbers will be for illustration only)

Let's just say it takes $4 mil to race a full TF or FC season. I'll borrow Forces car for an example. He is getting funding from Ford, Castrol, Brand Source, and AAA. Let's say just on John's car he is getting $2.5mil for the full season from sponsors. Only covering half of the cost right? Ok, well John wins a lot (15x?) so he is racking up some money from his performance. Let's say he gets a total of $1 mil in winnings (and contingencies). So we're at $3mil (again, just on John's car). Here's the part everyone's forgetting. How many John Force T-shirts do you see in the pits? What about all of the other stuff that he puts his name on a sells. How much money do you think he is pulling in from that? Go to John Force's online store or his apparel trailer on the midway and look at how much different items he is selling. Do you think he can bring in the final $500k to break even doing that? His T-shirts sell for $25!

I'm just saying...sponsorship isn't the only form of income for race teams.

But to answer the topic question, I'll go with the good ole saying 'It takes money to make money!'

Now I can see Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, Peyton Manning, Jimmie Johnson, Dale Jr, Kurt Busch, and others. Now John Force is popular in the drag racing world but is not a household name in America. Now let say John Force is the exception to the rule. So let's examine Bob Bode, Pedregon's, Jim Head, Wilkerson, and the rest. You mean to tell me they are making a boat load of money. An by way if I'm not wrong last year Force won 4 times for a total of $200K + $500k for the Championship, now I'll give you the fact that they would have gotten round money for the events that they did not win so lets say he made $1.5m in winnings. Now lets say is overhead cost are $1.25m, and that is conservative, now lets give him $500k in endorsement income, now what we got is $1.75 total income from racing operations. Now that money has to pay for your space in Brownsville and Yorba Linda. Please believe me I'm not saying they are not making any money but not mad money like you seem to believe they do.

 

[George.]

Do you guys really believe that Schumacher and Force are out there losing money? I've had the fortune of meeting Don Schumacher, and he is a business man through and through. He would not be drag racing if he didn't turn a profit. You guys aren't looking at the complete picture. Let me add some color to the black and white. (My numbers will be for illustration only)

Let's just say it takes $4 mil to race a full TF or FC season. I'll borrow Forces car for an example. He is getting funding from Ford, Castrol, Brand Source, and AAA. Let's say just on John's car he is getting $2.5mil for the full season from sponsors. Only covering half of the cost right? Ok, well John wins a lot (15x?) so he is racking up some money from his performance. Let's say he gets a total of $1 mil in winnings (and contingencies). So we're at $3mil (again, just on John's car). Here's the part everyone's forgetting. How many John Force T-shirts do you see in the pits? What about all of the other stuff that he puts his name on a sells. How much money do you think he is pulling in from that? Go to John Force's online store or his apparel trailer on the midway and look at how much different items he is selling. Do you think he can bring in the final $500k to break even doing that? His T-shirts sell for $25!

I'm just saying...sponsorship isn't the only form of income for race teams.

But to answer the topic question, I'll go with the good ole saying 'It takes money to make money!'

Tee shirt sales as part of the racing budget...
Really?
I don't see it.

Want to actually make money selling Tee's? It's not by nickel and diming out of a trailer.
It's by selling a license to replicate your brand to someone who is distributing to the masses through a store at your local mall or through a mass retailer like Wal-Mart..
IMO, The NHRA doesn't have a nationwide selling driver that you could call a "brand" like Dale jr. or any of the Nascar bunch that anyone in the country can identify. Force may be the best they have, but still not on TV enough to really make a breaktrhough..
So that relegates Tee shirt sales to a retail trailer and three people. I am sure it helps the dollars add up from the weekend's take, but not what I would call a cornerstone of the years racing budget.

In this economy, I personally wouldn't want to be the owner of an NHRA team in order to make a living.
I would think that everyone needs to realize that owning a race team is more of a passion or a hobby, funded by other interests that make money. DSR, Connie, Ken Black etc. Successful because they can spend the money, and still eat tomorrow if they blow up parts. Force/ Peds etc. are the exception. All of the teams that are out there to live and die on their own racing operations are getting fewer and farther between.
Just look at the great names that can't get back on the track because the funds aren't there in racing to support it.

 

[team23rulz]

I didn't say these guys are out there making millions, I just said they are turning a profit. Now there are teams out there that are spending money to be out there (Kallita's are probably one if I had to guess). I'm just saying that if done properly, you can make money in drag racing. If there wasn't any money out there, then they wouldn't have so many people doing it.

As a side note. I have worked in a t-shirt trailer at a national event before. You would be surprised how much money goes through the register. Do you think that John Force can sell 4,000 t-shirts in a weekend? Let's do the math. 4000*25= $100000. NHRA gets 20%(100000)=$20000+$2000=$22000 to NHRA (NHRA charges $2000 for a midway spot). So $78000 left over. So if the t-shirt costs $10 to make (which is a very high figure.), 78000-40000=$38000 profit from the weekend. Do it at 22 races and that's $836,000 dollars. Now I haven't paid the people who work in the trailer for the entire season or the cost for the trailer to travel across the country, but I do believe that John can sell more than 4,000 t-shirts per race. Plus the fact that he sells hats, pendants, die casts, etc. Do they include this in their budget? Maybe not, but do they make a profit from it, probably so.

 

[Muddy]

I seem to remember the Snake saying something when he retired that he always took a large slice of the sponsorship dollars up front for his personal use and he wouldn't touch that money to run his operation. Since he was unable to get enough to remove his share and still buy the parts necessary to be competitive he was retiring. He refused to reduce his share or supplement the racing budget and also refused to reduce the quality of his team and its performance. My point being he made a large chunk of money from racing each year. I seem to remember a figure of 1M that went to him annually but I'm not totally confident in that number. Not sure if that was per car or total.

 

[Toejam]

Then where did he get his money from?......I don't understand what you mean by breaking even? Did his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell no! Did his sponsorship money + his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell yes!

Winnings plus sponsor dollars isn't what Ian was referring to. I'll bet you anything what DHL and Mac gave Kalitta all those years didn't cover half of what Connie spent racing the whole season. Even the Army sponsorship isn't enough to run the car on it's own, Don Prudhomme refused it for that reason!

 

[MM]

Winnings plus sponsor dollars isn't what Ian was referring to. I'll bet you anything what DHL and Mac gave Kalitta all those years didn't cover half of what Connie spent racing the whole season. Even the Army sponsorship isn't enough to run the car on it's own, Don Prudhomme refused it for that reason!

Kalitta, DHL, and the Army have absolutely nothing to do with anything that I wrote. You just seemed to completely ignore my question, so I will ask it again. Where did Force get the money to keep his operation running and expand it if he, as you put it, has never come close to breaking even?

 

[twostep]

Where did Force get the money to keep his operation running and expand it if he, as you put it, has never come close to breaking even?

I agree completely. If one of the JFR cars wins Funny Car, as Neff did in Gainesville, and you add in some round money for the other two, what are their winnings? $75,000, maybe?

People should take a good look at the JFR operation next time they're in the pits. Look at all that equipment (besides the cars) and consider the fuel expense and human resources it takes just to get it all to the track and set it up. That $75K is GONE, before the call to fire is even given at the next event.

Without Ford and Castrol, John Force would be watching ESPN2 on Sunday night along with the rest of us. There isn't a fuel team out there that makes money on its' own without the help of sponsorship dollars. It is not possible. To answer the opening question, YOU don't have to be a multi-millionaire to race Pro, but SOMEBODY does.

 

[MM]

If one of the JFR cars wins Funny Car, as Neff did in Gainesville, and you add in some round money for the other two, what are their winnings? $75,000, maybe?

Take a good look at the JFR operation next time you're in the pits. Look at all that equipment (besides the cars) and consider the fuel expense and human resources it takes just to get it all to the track and set it up. That $75K is GONE, before the call to fire is even given at the next event.

Without Ford and Castrol, John Force would be watching ESPN2 on Sunday night along with the rest of us. There isn't a fuel team out there that makes money on its' own without the help of sponsorship dollars. It is not possible. To answer the opening question, YOU don't have to be a multi-millionaire to race Pro, but SOMEBODY does.

Clearly you didn't read my first post in this thread:

Then where did he get his money from?......I don't understand what you mean by breaking even? Did his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell no! Did his sponsorship money + his winnings cover all his expenses? Hell yes!

 

[twostep]

I was backing you up, Mike, not challenging what you said. I'll reword the post to clarify.

 

[Muddy]

John Force makes a lot of money today otherwise he couldn't continue to race. But without question he and a lot of others made a gob (bankers term) of money "back in the day" when you could run 3 or 4 match races every week. Those days are what set many of todays racers up with the necessary operation and sucess that is required to attract and keep sponsors today. Without that history of name recognition or a start up bankroll from somewhere it's almost impossible to build a successful racing operation today

 

[MM]

I was backing you up, Mike, not challenging what you said. I'll reword the post to clarify.

Gotcha Carl.....My apologies

 

[Toejam]

Kalitta, DHL, and the Army have absolutely nothing to do with anything that I wrote. You just seemed to completely ignore my question, so I will ask it again. Where did Force get the money to keep his operation running and expand it if he, as you put it, has never come close to breaking even?

Television show, Huge merchandise sales.....

 

[twostep]

Television show, Huge merchandise sales.....

Ford and Castrol.....

 

[BigDaddyB]

So does anybody believe that John Force earns as much as Tony Steward.