Countdown :-(

[Butch]

Consistently finishing near the top without a single win isn't necessarily showing a bad performance. All one needs to do is add the points up. Say driver A wins 3 races then never goes past 2nd round the rest of the year.
Driver B consistently goes 3rds all year.
Now who's the highest points driver.
A champion is a driver with the best consistent finishes.

 

[none]

I must not of explained my thought correctly, my point was how can you be a champion and never won an event??? How many multiple winners were there those years that were not champions?

Ken,
Who would you say had a better year, in a hypothetical 12 race season. The guy with 3 wins, 7 first round losses and 2 dnq's or a guy with no wins, 8 runner-ups, 3 semis and no first round losses?

Not submitted for argument, just discussion.
Alan

 

[camaro]

Ken,
Who would you say had a better year, in a hypothetical 12 race season. The guy with 3 wins, 7 first round losses and 2 dnq's or a guy with no wins, 8 runner-ups, 3 semis and no first round losses?

Not submitted for argument, just discussion.
Alan

now that would be a good question to pose, to a current pro racer with todays schedule and results (24 races 6 wins etc.) my guess is that more than half would choose the wins over the consistency / championship ??

 

[Greggo]

Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

I do! LOL

 

[stitcherbob]

I'll bet one win, many runners up and the Championship would be on everyone's list....if that one win was INDY

 

[Pete]

why not crown a regular season champion and then a playoff champion? two separate purses/payouts? we see it all the time in sports with division & conference champions...

 

[vegasnitro]

Ken,
Who would you say had a better year, in a hypothetical 12 race season. The guy with 3 wins, 7 first round losses and 2 dnq's or a guy with no wins, 8 runner-ups, 3 semis and no first round losses?

Not submitted for argument, just discussion.
Alan

Tony Schumacher's 1999 championship could be a case study for the above scenario. 22 races and Schumacher won the championship by qualifying for every race, going to the semis at seemingly every race, yet he only won 1 race. Joe Amato won 5 races, Mike Dunn and Doug Herbert both won 4 races. Gary Scelzi won 2 races and set the ET record a couple of times, but had a DNQ or 2. Did Schumacher have the best year?

It also would be interesting to run the points countdown style (including the "little" points for qualifying) and see how it would have shaken out.

 

[ironpony]

I posted to open discussion from previous comments.


Bragging rights would be the 3 wins, the better car and team would be the runner up position.

I think sponsors might like the wins, but the runners up would be more time in front of spectators.

remember the human is in it for instant gratification.

 

[mick]

whichever scenario puts the most money in the bank, which will be the same one that puts you higher in points, which should satisfy any regular touring racer.

then again....if you're bob bode and you win brainerd in 2010 and don't do so well in the other part time races you enter that year, i'd say you had a banner year, more than likely he mite say that even today that that one year tops them all for him.

 

[Huge]

whichever scenario puts the most money in the bank, which will be the same one that puts you higher in points, which should satisfy any regular touring racer.

then again....if you're bob bode and you win brainerd in 2010 and don't do so well in the other part time races you enter that year, i'd say you had a banner year, more than likely he mite say that even today that that one year tops them all for him.

That Brainerd win was a pretty exciting moment. Then to go on to Indy 2 weeks later and unload and run 2 career best runs with a 4.11 and 4.10 was like putting icing on a cake. I know he was pretty excited at Indy this year when he ran another 4.10 and his first 4.09. Wins are nice but I think championships would be better no matter how you get there. I just got back from dinner here in Charlotte with a crew guy I worked with at Bodes and he was showing me his championship ring he got with Del last year and damn that thing is nice.

 

[Dave]

Tony Schumacher's 1999 championship could be a case study for the above scenario. 22 races and Schumacher won the championship by qualifying for every race, going to the semis at seemingly every race, yet he only won 1 race. Joe Amato won 5 races, Mike Dunn and Doug Herbert both won 4 races. Gary Scelzi won 2 races and set the ET record a couple of times, but had a DNQ or 2. Did Schumacher have the best year?

It also would be interesting to run the points countdown style (including the "little" points for qualifying) and see how it would have shaken out.

1999 was the Countdown before the Countdown was an idea! The whole top 10 in points after Indy (6 races left) were separated by 119 points. Under the current format they would be separated by 110. What a great year without the reset or contrived drama. The biggest killer was the memphis rain that meant a qualifying session Sunday morning and the race run Sunday afternoon and Mike Dunn was a DNQ. Absolutely killed his title fight. I'll add in qualifying points and do the actual countdown reset for you though and let you know how it turns out.

 

[vegasnitro]

1999 was the Countdown before the Countdown was an idea! The whole top 10 in points after Indy (6 races left) were separated by 119 points. Under the current format they would be separated by 110. What a great year without the reset or contrived drama. The biggest killer was the memphis rain that meant a qualifying session Sunday morning and the race run Sunday afternoon and Mike Dunn was a DNQ. Absolutely killed his title fight. I'll add in qualifying points and do the actual countdown reset for you though and let you know how it turns out.

That sounds like a lot of work Dave. Thank you in advance.

Memphis '99 will get you every time!!!! (inside joke)

 

[vegasnitro]

I do! LOL

Decoratin' up the whole town at a cost of 40 dolluhs!

 

[Dave]

That sounds like a lot of work Dave. Thank you in advance.

Memphis '99 will get you every time!!!! (inside joke)

It was a huge pain in the rear end. I'll expect a check in the mail soon!

Here's how the top 10 shaped up after the U.S. Nationals

The biggest difference was adding in session points. The countdown hurt everyone except Doug Herbert and Bob Vandergriff, who gained 8 and 10 points respectively.

How does this little 6 race battle royale turn out??

 

[Dave]

Well let's see.. Amato fired the first shot in Reading, Herbert took Topeka and Memphis back to back, Schumacher won his first in Dallas, Dixon took Houston and Scelzi got the record, and Dunn bookended the year in Pomona. Advantage Herbert?

Schumacher still wins it. By a bigger margin with the countdown than without. The countdown helped Herbert pass Bernstein and Vandergriff pass Cory Mac. Otherwise it provided a bigger points gap than without a reset.

 

[Bullard Anderson]

I like the Countdown. I'm for it. I would like to see more rewarding for the #1 driver leading in, and then more point awarded for race wins in the Countdown is all. Part of my theory in liking the Countdown is that my driver isn't always going to be driving obviously and the Countdown gives me the intrigue I enjoy. I don't have a driver in Top Fuel or Pro Stock so for me the Countdown tweeks my interest again in those classes.

 

[Greggo]

That sounds like a lot of work Dave. Thank you in advance.

Memphis '99 will get you every time!!!! (inside joke)

Still kickin' myself for not takin' some of your hard earned $$$$

 

[vegasnitro]

Well let's see.. Amato fired the first shot in Reading, Herbert took Topeka and Memphis back to back, Schumacher won his first in Dallas, Dixon took Houston and Scelzi got the record, and Dunn bookended the year in Pomona. Advantage Herbert?

View attachment 3720

Schumacher still wins it. By a bigger margin with the countdown than without. The countdown helped Herbert pass Bernstein and Vandergriff pass Cory Mac. Otherwise it provided a bigger points gap than without a reset.

Thanks Dave! Lotsa work there.

 

[Dave]

It wasn't too bad. I was already playing with different points ideas. I had redone 1999 TF with the following - The 3,2,1 session points, 10 to enter, qualifying position points starting at 16 for first down to 1 for 16th, 20 points for an et record, 20 points for a speed record, 1 point for low et, 1 point for top speed, and the normal eliminations 20 per round except a bonus 20 for winning the finals. Max race points that could be earned in a weekend an even 200. My thought was, if we put more emphasis on winning and qualifying up front, how might that season play out differently? Especially with Tony only winning one race vs others winning multiples. How did it turn out? Schumacher still beat Scelzi by 75 points and Amato by 99. So essentially I already had all the session points figured out.

Like Mr. Reinhart's question posed earlier, who had the better season? Well, it looks like consistency wins every time. Schumacher wasn't setting the world on fire in 99, but everyone else had such erratic results that the points ended up very close.