Commentary: It's time for 1000-ft. Across the board (1 Viewer)

[clwill]

You are correct all the NHRA tracks would have to have 1000 ft clocks - There could be some that don't have them now but are there any at the Points Meet or National Event level ?

Unless they host a national event, none of them have a 1000' mph sensor today. So, 20 tracks have it, the rest do not.

 

[racer83]

Unless they host a national event, none of them have a 1000' mph sensor today. So, 20 tracks have it, the rest do not.

What does an MPH sensor have to do with setting indexes ??? Last time I checked E.T. is what we race too.

No the tracks would just MOVE the MPH sensors that they have - Why would they need more after the finishline ???


TK

 

[clwill]

What does an MPH sensor have to do with setting indexes ??? Last time I checked E.T. is what we race too.

In most categories MPH is vital data: to tune the car, to race the opponent, to see what happened. Your suggesting that we have only one MPH sensor at 660'?

 

[racer83]

In most categories MPH is vital data: to tune the car, to race the opponent, to see what happened. Your suggesting that we have only one MPH sensor at 660'?

No check my edit

 

[clwill]

Have you been to a local track lately? Most of them are just getting by on a shoestring budget. You're asking them to tear into systems that have been there working for decades, move a sensor (cut a hole in their wall, measure twice, cut once), recalibrate and reprogram systems that few people understand how they work, some of which come from companies that don't exist anymore. Then test it and adjust it to be sure it's right. Most of these tracks can't afford to get the porta-potty's emptied, but you want them to make this change? I'll take your and raise you one...

 

[racer83]

Have you been to a local track lately? Most of them are just getting by on a shoestring budget. You're asking them to tear into systems that have been there working for decades, move a sensor (cut a hole in their wall, measure twice, cut once), recalibrate and reprogram systems that few people understand how they work, some of which come from companies that don't exist anymore. Then test it and adjust it to be sure it's right. Most of these tracks can't afford to get the porta-potty's emptied, but you want them to make this change? I'll take your and raise you one...

Yep I do AND I want NHRA to hold their had while they do it. Its either them or the racers that take the bullet on this one - Dedicated to Safety

TK

(measure only twice huh ? )

 

[mike]

One thing is clear, everybody needs to run the same distance. As I noted in another thread, a good friend of ours was nearly killed in a Super Comp car within days of the initial 1000' change thanks to the different track length/prep. And the pro stock cars see that every weekend. Heck even Jeff Foster and the timing crews screw it up now and then.

Clearly trying to run two different races on the same track doesn't work (maybe that's a legitimate reason for ZMax...). But I still find a 1000' a downer.

Can't we make 1320 work for everyone? Isn't there a place in the sport for more than one lead change during a race? Aren't some of the best races you've ever seen the ones where it's a battle all the way down the track? Don't you occasionally find yourself feeling stupid when you try to explain to people that you love a sport that takes just three, maybe four seconds?

I'd much rather see slower cars and great racing. I'd gladly give up 300mph. I'd love to see the nitro cars race like they used to, not just blow off the tires and give up.

1000' isn't a panacea. It was going to save parts, did it? It was going to slow them down, but they're almost back to 1/4 mile speeds. It wouldn't have saved Eric or Scott. It's just a band-aid and it's starting to smell of gangrene.

DING DING DING...winner winner chicken dinner

every other motor sport in the world occasionally modifies, and sometimes radically changes, the rules governing the cars to keep them safe on the tracks they race on...I'm not saying the tracks don't get safety improvements like larger run-offs or SAFER barriers, but the primary change is always to the race car.

 

[Tim5636sc]

So, all you "1000' across the board" folks, riddle me this. What do you do with the 60 or so classes that have indexes based on 1320? What about the super classes (.90)?

And don't tell me: "I didn't really mean 'across the board', those folks would still go 1320. Just the alky and pro classes". So at divisional and national events we'd still have two different track lengths, with different preps, and still have incidents like the one that nearly killed Steve Iverson in Seattle two years ago.

We change the index's based on 1000' times Chris... seems to be a very trivial change to me. There is index and class racing for 1/8th mile, why can't there be a standard for 1000'?

We go 1000' across the board...NATIONAL AND DIVISIONAL in NHRA Drag Racing....

That's my opinion. Time to get "BACK TO BASICS"..... provide the racers with a safe race track. And at this time, until the magic 'safety fund' becomes available to improve the facilities themselves, shorten the track across the board. It's shown to be EFFECTIVE in the nitro categories. Have you seen a NITRO car go into the sand and nets at 1000' yet? Have we had any INJURIES in the nitro categories in 1000' since the change? There have been a few BIG BOOMERS in Funny Cars since the change over...and the drivers had plenty of time to slow it down.

What can be done right now?

- Mandate Carbon Fiber brakes for any car above 200 mph. Can't afford it.... stay home....

- Change all racing categories to 1000'. Makes it uniform and provides additional distance to stop in case of 'catastrophic failures'.

until solid changes can be made to improve the safety of these cars....give them more distance to stop. Make the track safe all the way down.

A

 

[JF]

So in your opinion does 320 MORE feet not make a better shutdown area ?No it make it longer. How does it make it worse ? No It doesn't Make it worse

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that 1000 is the end all, be all. In my opinion it wouldn't have changed anything in the Kalitta accident but MAY have in the Niver. I will take the may before the wouldn't.


TK

I wasn't in Kalittas car or Mark Niver so as to what they did or did not do I can't speak of. IN an Ideal world making the track shorter and shutoff longer would solve the problem. We are not talkin Ideal conditions.

I Drive a 175MPH dragster, If my throttle sticks open, Brakes fail, or chutes don't open I may slow down a little extra with that extra 320 but I AM going into the sand and net. at (I'm guessing 120 mph vS 130 mph) I would like to know that the end of the track reguardless of where it is, taht it is designed as best as it could be to slow me down without getting hurt. I may still get hurt, but a least they did the best they could.

Right now if it happens the last thing going thru my mind would be "God damn NHRA couldn't spend a little extra money so I didn't have to die" Whats it going to take a bake sale to come up with the money. I'll willing to pay up to $1000 to get better shutdown areas. (Just not to NHRA, a bonified independent source) SO that I and others might live in a wreck.

The question to ALL Of you is what are you willing to pay?

 

[JF]

We change the index's based on 1000' times Chris... seems to be a very trivial change to me. There is index and class racing for 1/8th mile, why can't there be a standard for 1000'?

We go 1000' across the board...NATIONAL AND DIVISIONAL in NHRA Drag Racing....

That's my opinion. Time to get "BACK TO BASICS"..... provide the racers with a safe race track. And at this time, until the magic 'safety fund' becomes available to improve the facilities themselves, shorten the track across the board. It's shown to be EFFECTIVE in the nitro categories. Have you seen a NITRO car go into the sand and nets at 1000' yet? Have we had any INJURIES in the nitro categories in 1000' since the change? There have been a few BIG BOOMERS in Funny Cars since the change over...and the drivers had plenty of time to slow it down.

What can be done right now?

- Mandate Carbon Fiber brakes for any car above 200 mph. Can't afford it.... stay home....

- Change all racing categories to 1000'. Makes it uniform and provides additional distance to stop in case of 'catastrophic failures'.

until solid changes can be made to improve the safety of these cars....give them more distance to stop. Make the track safe all the way down.

A

Tim, I generally agree with you but not this time. You need to realise
1. That some of us were at tracks when you were being born.(1973)
2 You need to think of your response as a racer not a PR guy and not as a guy that might lose whatever benefits NHRA gives to you. If you were to critisize them.
3. I haven't seen your name on an entry list. Its kinda easy to be right when your Ass isn't going into the sand and your life isn't on the line.
4 You said "get back to the basics" 1320 is the basics. Its they way it has been for over 5 decades
5.You said "until solid changes can be made to improve safety". WHY? in gods name should safety have to wait? WHY can't it be now?

I don't wanna start an online fight or pissing match, But lets be real here. Wait for Safety????

 

[Tim5636sc]

Right now if it happens the last thing going thru my mind would be "God damn NHRA couldn't spend a little extra money so I didn't have to die" Whats it going to take a bake sale to come up with the money. I'll willing to pay up to $1000 to get better shutdown areas. (Just not to NHRA, a bonified independent source) SO that I and others might live in a wreck.

The question to ALL Of you is what are you willing to pay?

I'm willing to make sure I've got Dual Caliper Carbon Fiber brakes on my 170 mph Dragster, make sure I have a tether system attached to my dual chutes on my 170 mph Dragster and a kill switch similar to the ones the Nitro and several Alcohol cars have.

If I drive a dragster, I'll also know...based on previous accidents that me going into the sand trap head on is taking a risk. The current net system and long wheel base Dragsters don't mix.

A few weeks ago in Edmonton, Spencer Massey drove an A/Fuel Dragster, had a parachute failure and decided to "SCRUB SOME SPEED" off by putting the car against the wall, instead of going straight into a sub-par safety net system.

SMART DECISION if you ask me...

What you are asking NHRA to do takes TIME and MONEY to fix. (And you still have not answered my question when I asked you how NHRA is going to pay for it...)

In the mean time, IF another incident like Mark's or Neal's occurs would you as a driver like the extra 320' to slow the car? If you drove a door car wouldn't you like to know the entire track had GLUE?

 

[racer83]

I wasn't in Kalittas car or Mark Niver so as to what they did or did not do I can't speak of. IN an Ideal world making the track shorter and shutoff longer would solve the problem. We are not talkin Ideal conditions

I Drive a 175MPH dragster, If my throttle sticks open, Brakes fail, or chutes don't open I may slow down a little extra with that extra 320 but I AM going into the sand and net. at (I'm guessing 120 mph vS 130 mph) I would like to know that the end of the track reguardless of where it is, taht it is designed as best as it could be to slow me down without getting hurt. I may still get hurt, but a least they did the best they could.

Right now if it happens the last thing going thru my mind would be "God damn NHRA couldn't spend a little extra money so I didn't have to die" Whats it going to take a bake sale to come up with the money. I'll willing to pay up to $1000 to get better shutdown areas. (Just not to NHRA, a bonified independent source) SO that I and others might live in a wreck.

The question to ALL Of you is what are you willing to pay?

I agree with you and that was part of the point I was trying to get across, the extra 320 might not change the result.

I just don't see any argument against 1000 feet other than History and Tradition so why not start there ? I totally agree that the rest of the shutdown area still needs to be improved or changed but giving everyone an extra 320 today might make a difference

TK

 

[Jer]

Maybe if this happens to a future driver in a top fuel maybe brush up against the wall, near the end? Might have a bad paint job but....

 

[JF]

I'm willing to make sure I've got Dual Caliper Carbon Fiber brakes on my 170 mph Dragster, make sure I have a tether system attached to my dual chutes on my 170 mph Dragster and a kill switch similar to the ones the Nitro and several Alcohol cars have.

If I drive a dragster, I'll also know...based on previous accidents that me going into the sand trap head on is taking a risk.
A few weeks ago in Edmonton, Spencer Massey drove an A/Fuel Dragster, had a parachute failure and decided to "SCRUB SOME SPEED" off by putting the car against the wall, instead of going straight into a sub-par safety net system.

SMART DECISION if you ask me...

What you are asking NHRA to do takes TIME and MONEY to fix. (And you still have not answered my question when I asked you how NHRA is going to pay for it...)

In the mean time, IF another incident like Mark's or Neal's occurs would you as a driver like the extra 320' to slow the car? If you drove a door car wouldn't you like to know the entire track had GLUE?

First if your unconcious for what ever reason that won't help. 320 ft makes such a small difference that I don't know why we even discuss it . Most cars are traveling about minus1 sec per 320 ft. it doesn't really make that much difference
Head on into anything is bad. If I ever go into a net if at all possible it will be at an angle
The current net system and long wheel base Dragsters don't mix. My point exactly.
Spencer was smart I agree.

As for where is NHRA going to get the money?
1. Do the math, Example: Indy 150 S/C cars at $270 = $40500 Winner gets $1800 Not to mention the 3-4 crew that come with each car.
2 Take out a loan. I have, I assume you have for something you wanted in the past.
3 Come up with a program such as If you want to sponsor a race or procar in NHRA you need to contribute to the safety fund. We all know they are very good at getting money from sponsors.
4 Just flat take a hit in the checkbook
5 Take donations at the gate.
6 Offer a decreased entry fee if you donate to safety fund.
7 Is that enough or should I go on?

As for the track having glue It should be the whole track reguardless of who is racing on it and their distance. Yes its tougher for the Pro teams on tires But with the majority of Money, Sponsors and fan base . They will adapt.

The one thing is Time Yes. They just left Seattle. They have 1 year to fix it. As for other tracks sure 1000 ft this year and when the race is over you have 1 year to fix it.

 

[Tim5636sc]

Tim, I generally agree with you but not this time. You need to realise
1. That some of us were at tracks when you were being born.(1973)
2 You need to think of your response as a racer not a PR guy and not as a guy that might lose whatever benefits NHRA gives to you. If you were to critisize them.
3. I haven't seen your name on an entry list. Its kinda easy to be right when your Ass isn't going into the sand and your life isn't on the line.
4 You said "get back to the basics" 1320 is the basics. Its they way it has been for over 5 decades
5.You said "until solid changes can be made to improve safety". WHY? in gods name should safety have to wait? WHY can't it be now?

I don't wanna start an online fight or pissing match, But lets be real here. Wait for Safety????

1. My family was air strips and dry lakes racing at the first 'organized drag races' back in the 40's helping to spread the word about a new 'Safe' way to race, so i'll take the lesson's they've taught me about safety since my birth (1973) as a response to that one...
2. Perhaps you didn't read my first column I wrote about how NHRA membership was a joke...I don't follow to the beat of their or any other sanctioning body drum. I'm still waiting for those "perks" you are talking about as a PR guy for NHRA drivers. Any way you can let me know what they are? And who I call to get them?
3. COMPETITION LICENSE 5636 Advanced ET in my pocket. Don't have the money today to race SAFELY with the Carbon Fiber Brakes and dual chutes i'd run in my own car so that's why my ASS is not out there doing it. But that'll change soon enough.
4. NHRA Drag Racing was built on the premise of taking people off the street, being 'Dedicated to Safety' and having "Ingenuity in Action" to accomplish this. This is the BASICS I am talking about returning to. The DISTANCE in the beginning became a standard at several tracks.
5. There is no SOLUTION TODAY with improving the nets. This will take time, research, MONEY and logistics to make this happen. So we have no CHOICE BUT to wait.

I respect your opinion John, but please don't make the assumption that simply because i am younger than you, am not currently racing a car myself in NHRA competition, or I do PR work for drivers who race in NHRA that I don't have a vested interest in seeing people be safe. I've got 10 drivers who are family to me at CRX that I want to be as safe as possible. And right now, the only way I see that happening, is giving them more time to slow their cars in the event of an accident.

 

[racer83]

First if your unconcious for what ever reason that won't help. 320 ft makes such a small difference that I don't know why we even discuss it . Most cars are traveling about minus1 sec per 320 ft. HUH 320 x 4 = 1280 1 X 4 = 4 are you actually suggesting that decelerating cars go 1280 feet in 4 seconds ???it doesn't really make that much difference
Head on into anything is bad. If I ever go into a net if at all possible it will be at an angle
The current net system and long wheel base Dragsters don't mix. My point exactly.
Spencer was smart I agree.

As for where is NHRA going to get the money?
1. Do the math, Example: Indy 150 S/C cars at $270 = $40500 Winner gets $1800 Not to mention the 3-4 crew that come with each car.
2 Take out a loan. I have, I assume you have for something you wanted in the past.
3 Come up with a program such as If you want to sponsor a race or procar in NHRA you need to contribute to the safety fund. We all know they are very good at getting money from sponsors.
4 Just flat take a hit in the checkbook
5 Take donations at the gate.
6 Offer a decreased entry fee if you donate to safety fund.
7 Is that enough or should I go on?

As for the track having glue It should be the whole track reguardless of who is racing on it and their distance. Yes its tougher for the Pro teams on tires But with the majority of Money, Sponsors and fan base . They will adapt. At the cost of safety, in the quickest, fastest and most publicly recognized 2 classes ? Do you even understand the tire chunking issue ?

The one thing is Time Yes. They just left Seattle. They have 1 year to fix it. As for other tracks sure 1000 ft this year and when the race is over you have 1 year to fix it.

You want it now but don't want to accept that longer shutdown areas are an improvement that can be done now.

Again its the whole package that needs to be re thought and shorter tracks with longer shutdown areas are just part of that.

TK

ps I was at the track well before Tim too

 

[JF]

1. My family was air strips and dry lakes racing at the first 'organized drag races' back in the 40's helping to spread the word about a new 'Safe' way to race, so i'll take the lesson's they've taught me about safety since my birth (1973) as a response to that one...
2. Perhaps you didn't read my first column I wrote about how NHRA membership was a joke...I don't follow to the beat of their or any other sanctioning body drum. I'm still waiting for those "perks" you are talking about as a PR guy for NHRA drivers. Any way you can let me know what they are? And who I call to get them?
3. COMPETITION LICENSE 5636 Advanced ET in my pocket. Don't have the money today to race SAFELY with the Carbon Fiber Brakes and dual chutes i'd run in my own car so that's why my ASS is not out there doing it. But that'll change soon enough.
4. NHRA Drag Racing was built on the premise of taking people off the street, being 'Dedicated to Safety' and having "Ingenuity in Action" to accomplish this. This is the BASICS I am talking about returning to. The DISTANCE in the beginning became a standard at several tracks.
5. There is no SOLUTION TODAY with improving the nets. This will take time, research, MONEY and logistics to make this happen. So we have no CHOICE BUT to wait.

I respect your opinion John, but please don't make the assumption that simply because i am younger than you, am not currently racing a car myself in NHRA competition, or I do PR work for drivers who race in NHRA that I don't have a vested interest in seeing people be safe. I've got 10 drivers who are family to me at CRX that I want to be as safe as possible. And right now, the only way I see that happening, is giving them more time to slow their cars in the event of an accident.

Tim, Excellent post. Point taken
John

 

[JF]

You want it now but don't want to accept that longer shutdown areas are an improvement that can be done now.

Again its the whole package that needs to be re thought and shorter tracks with longer shutdown areas are just part of that.

TK

ps I was at the track well before Tim too

You have it wrong I am NOT against 1000 ft You are all correct that it needs to be done, BUt where we disagree is IT is not a fix, It is a band-aid. When the problem is fixed. We should be able to take off the band-aid and everything should be like new, except for a few scars here and there.

As for my math I was guessing because I didn't feel like actully figuring it out.
But its close and gets the point across.
As for the Tire Chunking, nope again, Don't know and Don't care. F/C & T/F teams have the funds to adapt to the problem. The track should be equally prepared for all teams from Jrs to T/F Otherwise its just favoritism and unsafe

 

[clwill]

I'm amazed that you all think changing to 1000' across the board is trivial. There are tracks all across the country that would need to change. Most with no money, no technical expertise, and no "hand-holding" from NHRA. Jeff Foster and crew had a YEAR to implement it at the 20 national event tracks as the tour made its way around the country. And they still got it wrong in some cases.

Let me see, which to change: a) the infrastructure of dozens of tracks around the country _and_ messing with the data and knowledge (and probably final drive ratios) of every one of the 30,000+ driving members of the NHRA or b) the size of the fuel line in each of perhaps 50, maybe 150 cars. The former group has no money or expertise to handle the change, and the latter is flush with both.

You people make me scratch my head and go huh?

 

[racer83]

I'm amazed that you all think changing to 1000' across the board is trivial. There are tracks all across the country that would need to change. Most with no money, no technical expertise, and no "hand-holding" from NHRA. Jeff Foster and crew had a YEAR to implement it at the 20 national event tracks as the tour made its way around the country. And they still got it wrong in some cases.

Let me see, which to change: a) the infrastructure of dozens of tracks around the country _and_ messing with the data and knowledge (and probably final drive ratios) of every one of the 30,000+ driving members of the NHRA or b) the size of the fuel line in each of perhaps 50, maybe 150 cars. The former group has no money or expertise to handle the change, and the latter is flush with both.

You people make me scratch my head and go huh?

Chris you are right there its not trivial its a big deal but something has to change

So how did the member tracks handle the change from 5 amber trees to 3 ??? How did they handle the change from photo cell to infrared to laser ??? How did they handle incandesant to LED ??? How did they handle the change of the speed trap ??? Why would you assume that NHRA wouldn't "hold their hand" ? Part of challange of the National event implementation was that they needed the system to work with 2 different length tracks.

The alcohol classes are "flush" with money eh ? Im sure all of those "150" cars will be happy to hear you are impressed with their funding and expertise.

TK

Yep just change the fuel line - easy (there you go) .