Automatic deployment equipment

[d'kid]

OK, So all I really know it that planes land on those "BIG BOATS" in the middle of the ocean.

And Gordon this is a homework project for everyone, not just you

Being 'On The Roof' during flight operations is something that should be in everyone's Bucket List.

Ah, Masterchief... ya want to tell 'em about what could go wrong during recovery ... or during a 'cold' cat shot...

d'kid

 

[Gordon]

Being 'On The Roof' during flight operations is something that should be in everyone's Bucket List.

Ah, Masterchief... ya want to tell 'em about what could go wrong during recovery ... or during a 'cold' cat shot...

d'kid

I agree 110% Karl - if you're an adrenaline junkie, then being on the roof should definitely be on your Bucket List... and for an added treat, go on the roof at night!

As for discussing what could go wrong during a launch and/or recovery, well... let's just say no amount of planning and training can prepare anyone for every potential scenario nor outcome. We have the best & finest aviators on the planet, flying the best aircraft in the world, being controlled (both on the deck and in the air) by some of America's finest young men and women - but sometimes things go wrong.

It's kinda like racing cars at breakneck speed - things go wrong sometimes.

 

[Silly Savage]

Unfortunately the simplest fix of all is to shorten the distance between start and finish which will probably be the solution of choice. I guess seeing 1000' nitro in person last two years, 1000' alcohol won't be that big a deal since I sit at the start anyway. Although in my opinion in the event of catastrohic failure (not the case in this last incident) 1000' racing is not the solution.

The simplest fix is slowing the cars down. F1, Indy Car, NASCAR have all taken steps backwards in performance to slow down the cars AND stuck to their guns. Slowing the cars down to what they ran 20 years ago won't hurt a damn thing. Plus, I am sure it'll save racers some money in the long run on parts, etc. Mid to high 4 second runs at 300MPH is still impressive regardless......still burning nitro and probably help the car count. I have a boat load of respect for Ed the Ace, but they do need to taper things back for the survival of the sport as well as the drivers. As far as Mark Niver's deal, it was a freak accident that SHOULDN'T have killed him, but a change in the shut down area can help resolve this in the future.

 

[Smiley]

What about something like this, but hydraulically operated to open into the wind either on remote or driver controlled. May not add much, but enough.. You could also set them to add down-force so the brakes would be more effective.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/nascar-flaps.jpg

 

[clwill]

What about something like this, but hydraulically operated to open into the wind either on remote or driver controlled. May not add much, but enough.. You could also set them to add down-force so the brakes would be more effective.

Not a bad idea, but I still think you need things completely outside of the car. In case the driver goes unconscious. Or the car has a huge blow up. Or the system malfunctions. IMHO, we still need a sophisticated catch system that works regardless of the state of the car.

 

[Smiley]

Chris - I understand your point.

Has anyone ever done any testing with a "water" shutdown area? Say a concrete pool 4" deep and 200' long?

In some cases it would work, but in other the cars would more than likely just skip over it.

I would think that a combination needs to be considered and investigated because there is little chance of there being "one" way to do it right that will work under every circumstance.

There will always be a risk, but there has to be ways of minimizing it.


Does anyone still have the pics of the new e-town nets? I thought there was some type of pulley system on them that would allow the nets to stretch, slowing the car down as it was drawn out.

 

[BrettV]

Sorry, Brett, but F-16's do, in fact, have tail hooks. They certainly don't land on aircraft carriers like Navy & Marine Corps jets do, but they use their tail hook on shore based runways during certain emergencies and also during wet runway landings - normally when there's standing water on the deck.

I didn't know that! Learn something everyday.

 

[flapjack]

From what I've read in another post (SFI certification of parachutes), there is
another issue besides shut down areas.

Namely, the integrity of the chute mount is of vital importance. If it is weak,
the chutes come off and major braking power is lost. I wonder what the NHRA
and/or SFI have to sy about this.

 

[flapjack]

From what I've read in another post (SFI certification of parachutes), there is
another issue besides shut down areas.

Namely, the integrity of the chute mount is of vital importance. If it is weak,
the chutes come off and major braking power is lost. I wonder what the NHRA
and/or SFI have to sy about this.

Forgot to add the integrity of the chute is important, too. Is there a
mandatory replacement schedule? I used to rock climb and we would inspect
our ropes every so often to make sure there was not fraying or wear that
might cause breakage. Is a similar type of inspection done for chutes? I ask
because I do not know. Thought it might be worth mentioning.

 

[Nemo]

I agree down the road there will have to be a better arresting system....but in the mean time I find it odd that everything they have set up is directly perpendicular to the cars motion. It's the sudden deceleration that is so deadly in most cases yet the nets and barriers are all set up to do almost just that. Why couldn't they set up a long length of safety barriers at 45 degrees to the track (after the sandtrap) that allow the cars to deflect off and ride them down the line scrubbing off speed. They don't even have to angle them in to the middle (where they would eventually have to to come to a sudden stop where the two 45's meet) but angle to the longest area of run off. As the safer barriers shred and the car rides along the side of it they will scrub off speed much slower than a net or water barrels. The only time a car would would impact one direct is if it came into the sand and went in at a 45 degree angle opposite the safer barrier angle.

As far as the whole "stop coming up with suggestions thing"....sorry I don't get that line of thinking. How is trying to avoid the next tragedy interfering with your mourning, heck you see what the tital is....dont open the thread, it's that easy. I'm sorry for your loss, I put myself in a T/D car and my boys in Jr's every weekend, one day I would like to combine the operation into a TA/D so I would rather not send my boy into a silly catch net when that day comes...so I guess I have a right to toss ideas around with the racing community as much as you have to mourn the loss of this great man (no sarcasm there, I really admire the Niver's and what they did....compete with equipment they made by hand).

 

[The Counterfeiter]

A thought on how NHRA could begin to find a solution to shutdown problems.
Most people assume that NASCAR initiated the SAFER Barrier, which is wrong.
From Wilkipedia:
"The SAFER system was developed by engineers at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln starting in 1998, sponsored by the Indy Racing League. It was first installed at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in 2002, in time for the Indianapolis 500 and first "tested" by Robby McGehee in a crash during the first day of practice. "
The IRL (Tony George) presented a problem and provided funding to an outside expert. IMS at considerable expense, implemented the results. NASCAR saw how good the solution was and ran with it. The system has without doubt lessened injuries and possibly saved lives and is little changed from the original concept.
My point? Find someone like Dean Sicking and his team, state the problem and PROVIDE SUFFICIENT FUNDING to find a solution. If NHRA can't (or won't) commit enough funding, problems with the sport's image and its ability to attract fans will multiply. I don't know what the solution is, and its pretty obvious NHRA doesn't either. I've been around our sport as a fan, sponsor and racer for 50 years, I hope it can continue.

 

[Randy]

Forgot to add the integrity of the chute is important, too. Is there a
mandatory replacement schedule? I used to rock climb and we would inspect
our ropes every so often to make sure there was not fraying or wear that
might cause breakage. Is a similar type of inspection done for chutes? I ask
because I do not know. Thought it might be worth mentioning.

In our case (254-259 MPH) the chutes don't last that long anyway to worry about it. They burn the nylon centers out with friction heat every time they deploy. Like a rope burn. If we get 18-20 runs out of a set of chutes we are lucky.

RG

 

[Rollout96]

In our case (254-259 MPH) the chutes don't last that long anyway to worry about it. They burn the nylon centers out with friction heat every time they deploy. Like a rope burn. If we get 18-20 runs out of a set of chutes we are lucky.

RG

Wow. That is something I never knew!!!

 

[flapjack]

In our case (254-259 MPH) the chutes don't last that long anyway to worry about it. They burn the nylon centers out with friction heat every time they deploy. Like a rope burn. If we get 18-20 runs out of a set of chutes we are lucky.

RG

Are the cords like a kernmantle climbing rope, a core and a sheath, and the core gets melted by friction when it rubs against the sheath?

 

[Randy]

Are the cords like a kernmantle climbing rope, a core and a sheath, and the core gets melted by friction when it rubs against the sheath?

The cords are solid nylon. The canopy is nylon sheet. The nylon sheets heat up in strip like areas where the cord slides against the sheet during deployment like a rope burn. The effected areas actually harden (melt) around the friction burn which makes the area brittle. On deployment the canopy stretches every which direction causing it to tear or break in the brittle (burned) areas.

No expiration date needed. They have a built in obsolescence.

RG

 

[flapjack]

The cords are solid nylon. The canopy is nylon sheet. The nylon sheets heat up in strip like areas where the cord slides against the sheet during deployment like a rope burn. The effected areas actually harden (melt) around the friction burn which makes the area brittle. On deployment the canopy stretches every which direction causing it to tear or break in the brittle (burned) areas.

No expiration date needed. They have a built in obsolescence.

RG

Drag racing chute designers could take a hint from skydivers. They bundle the chute in a bag that is popped out by a drogue chute, and once the cords are fully deployed does the chute start deploying out of the bag. There is no cord scarring on the canopy (of much thinner material) when it is thus deployed. Its actually pretty neat watching a skydiver pack his chute. It's a lot more complex than what I have seen with drag chute.

 

[clwill]

Drag racing chute designers could take a hint from skydivers. They bundle the chute in a bag that is popped out by a drogue chute, and once the cords are fully deployed does the chute start deploying out of the bag. There is no cord scarring on the canopy (of much thinner material) when it is thus deployed. Its actually pretty neat watching a skydiver pack his chute. It's a lot more complex than what I have seen with drag chute.

Precisely what a Stroud chute does. Part of the reason why we use it.

 

[flapjack]

Precisely what a Stroud chute does. Part of the reason why we use it.

Nice. Looks like I didn't do my research. Again.

 

[Toejam]

Randy, you're very right on many points, except one. Indycar has SAFER barriers that people regularly hit at 200+ and walk away. It's clear that some kind of technology could be developed to make incidents like Mark's survivable.

Dallas and Indy both have 300' Sand pens as they call them, How Niver's car would have done in those is anyone's guess!

 

[e-town iceyman]

what if the bottom of the catch net is kinda angled back so the car can go underneath it while it may catch a wing or blower and slow it down that way.. idk just a thought ... pic wont work