2 Step Staging (1 Viewer)

[DixonFan]

While watching espn3 this weekend we had a match between Bartone and Dejoria in round # 2 in TAFC. They both lit the top bulb and then we hear Bartone's car rev up. Then all of a sudden Dejoria gets timed out and Bartone leaves. During Bartone's top end interview he said that they told dejoria that they used a 2 step staging procedure. I was like a 2 step staging procedure???.....Whats that? So I ask my good friend Will Hanna to explain what a 2 step staging procedure is:

Will Hanna
Here's a quick run down of how the two step works on a pro mod and now TAD/TAFC.

A normal MSD points box has a rev limiting chip. This is usually around the 10,500 range to prevent over revs if something in the drive line lets loose or the driver misses a shift.

A 2 Step box is a simple box that breaks that rev chip into two circuits. One rev chip is the normal 'high side' mentioned above, the other is used for launch rpm control. The two step is armed by a switch on the clutch (or transbrake in converter cars). While the clutch is depressed, it will limit the motor at say 6500 rpm if a 6500 chip is in the low side of the two step. So the driver can go wide open with the throttle with the clutch depressed (they still have to hold the brake) and the motor will only go to 6500. When the clutch is released, the switch breaks the circuit and the two step switches over to the high side and the car launches.

They also have a leanout valve while the motor is on the two step. When the motor is wide open throttle, it is bypassing the barrel valve which traditionally controls how much fuel the motor has at stage during a traditional 'foot swap' leave. So to lean the fuel back out, a solenoid to a leanout jet is used.

Hope this helps explain what a 2 Step is. Because I was lost before Will explained it to me.

Thanks Will for the write up.
Shannon

 

[twostep]

I understand the 2-step, but what does that have to do with DeJoria timing out? She's got 7 seconds to final-stage after Bartone final-stages....if he hasn't, she can eat a sandwich while she's waiting for Rick Stewart to get tired of the staging duel...

What happened should be apparent when ESPN2 shows the Sportsman coverage on 3/13.

 

[Rat]

I understand the 2-step, but what does that have to do with DeJoria timing out? She's got 7 seconds to final-stage after Bartone final-stages....if he hasn't, she can eat a sandwich while she's waiting for Rick Stewart to get tired of the staging duel...

What happened should be apparent when ESPN2 shows the Sportsman coverage on 3/13.

I agree. Thank you for the great learning on 2 step as it really gives a good definition but carl makes a good point. I am very interested in seeing exactly what happened. It does not seem consistant of DeJoria to be timed out so there had to be some malfunction. She had a shot beat Bartone in the semis as she was showing promise of running low 50's with i think her 54 being her quickest, and Bartone was still running within the best. She could of won the whole race if not for that timeout cause Bartone's r/u was within her range.. As far as what Bartone ran in the final nobody was gonna touch that e.t, if manzo was there it would of been a real low et final and who knows if manzo could of ran a 44

 

[Silly Savage]

Maybe if her 2 step wasn't working she didn't stage, couldn't stage, etc. Inless you're in the drivers seat, you won't understand it.

 

[clwill]

FWIW, our MSD box has three rev limiters, one overall, one launch, and one burnout. The latter two are operated by buttons on the wheel. The launch one is the same one that operates the transbrake and the delay box.

 

[Greg]

I can only imagine how much easier it is to drive these cars with this setup. When we ran a blown motor, I remember having to watch the tach closely, so that I could leave right at 6200 or so.

 

[DixonFan]

I understand the 2-step, but what does that have to do with DeJoria timing out? She's got 7 seconds to final-stage after Bartone final-stages....if he hasn't, she can eat a sandwich while she's waiting for Rick Stewart to get tired of the staging duel...

What happened should be apparent when ESPN2 shows the Sportsman coverage on 3/13.

Carl...remembering back I think after they both lit the first staging bulb Bartone lit the second bulb with out bringing his rpm's up. Usually when staging these car you hear them rev up the rpm's before going in and turning on the second staging bulb. Which I think through DeJoria off her game. I am sure she won't make that mistake again.

Shannon

 

[twostep]

Usually when staging these car you hear them rev up the rpm's before going in and turning on the second staging bulb. Which I think through DeJoria off her game.

Ah - OK, I understand what you're saying. So instead of watching the stage lights, she was listening for Bartone's climbing revs, which never came...7 seconds went by...makes sense. Force suffered a somewhat similar DQ once when the guy in the other lane left before the tree. The sound of the other car launching caused him to do the same, and Graham Light ruled a double DQ. Force was not pleased, if you remember.

I'll bet the Sportsman program will show exactly what you're saying, Shannon, assuming they replay DeJoria's run in the first place.

 

[Rat]

Ah - OK, I understand what you're saying. So instead of watching the stage lights, she was listening for Bartone's climbing revs, which never came...7 seconds went by...makes sense. Force suffered a somewhat similar DQ once when the guy in the other lane left before the tree. The sound of the other car launching caused him to do the same, and Graham Light ruled a double DQ. Force was not pleased, if you remember.

I'll bet the Sportsman program will show exactly what you're saying, Shannon, assuming they replay DeJoria's run in the first place.

oh they will play it, it's semi final race and thats probably exactly what happened. The Force situation you are referring to i believe was '01 vegas-2 where bode left early and force left right after. I always thought force should of won that cause he was not the first to foul but then again he did not have the clarity and displine to stay put so i see there arguement tho as a drive in that situation it has to be awfully difficult to stay focused.

 

[Pinocchio]

Hasn't the "First or Worst" rule been in effect forever?

 

[.]

The Force situation you are referring to i believe was '01 vegas-2 where bode left early and force left right after. I always thought force should of won that cause he was not the first to foul but then again he did not have the clarity and displine to stay put so i see there arguement tho as a drive in that situation it has to be awfully difficult to stay focused.

Has it really been 10 years since the Force/Bode deal?


Edit:
Yep, 10 years! Seems like 4 or 5 to me. I found this article...

Las Vegas Motor Speedway | Strip | News | John Force trying to protect NHRA Funny Car points lead in Las Vegas

I though the bold part was interesting.

The most bizarre, of course, was his entanglement in a double-disqualification with Bob Bode in the first round of the inaugural ACDelco Nationals in 2001, an incident that ultimately resulted in an NHRA rule change.

Bode left the starting line before the electronic "tree" was activated. A bewildered Force, unsure of just what had happened, followed suit. By rule, both drivers were subsequently booted from the race even though Bode was both the "first or worst" violator. To its credit, the NHRA re-wrote the rule - but not the result.

 

[Butch]

I can only imagine how much easier it is to drive these cars with this setup. When we ran a blown motor, I remember having to watch the tach closely, so that I could leave right at 6200 or so.

I agree. It's getting to the point a blind one armed monkey could drive one of these cars. LOL
I say takeout all the electronics's and put the driver talent back into the race.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I see it as the same as when Enders bumped in on Greg Anderson, Anderson, although he didn't like it, openly ADMITTED It was HIS Fault and he should have been paying attention.

I didn't see the coverage, however, they had a 2 step on the green patron car for well over a year a couple of years ago.

For that matter, there has been and are SEVERAL Alcohol Cars and dragsters with Lenco Drives (same type of staging procedure) and 2 steps on them.

 

[twostep]

I'm sorry, I guess I don't see why this is receiving so much attention.

I don't think it is, Nancy. Bartone explained, DeJoria isn't carping and we're just chatting about it in an easy, friendly way. She apparently made a mistake that cost her the round, something every drag racer alive has done at one time or another. She's a fine driver and many victories lie ahead of her.

I've seen the 2 step devices in action; a few of the blown alcohol TS cars around here use them.

 

[Tumbleweed]

You're right Carl, there is another site that is controversial about the subject, so I reworded my post.

 

[Silly Savage]

I agree. It's getting to the point a blind one armed monkey could drive one of these cars. LOL
I say takeout all the electronics's and put the driver talent back into the race.

I agree. I have had to eye my tach while pulling into the beams. As it would be easier to just hit a button and have the RPMs held for me without worry, but putting that on the driver also makes that driver have to concentrate harder and hopefully help make that driver better at their job.