Sean D, shondoo
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When Pro Stock Got Expensive...
- Thread starter stitcherbob
- Start date
Huge
Nitro Member
Nascar fans are never happy about anything.
FABMAN
Nitro Member
Only happy when there [ my ] fantasy picks finish good.Nascar fans are never happy about anything.
Nascar fans are never happy about anything.
Especially if they forgot to bring their beer to the race.
Are you sure about that?
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
I'm sure some car salesmen aren't .....when I went to buy my 1989 Dodge Dakota convertible pickup, the salesman said "they don't make a convertible"...
I went over to the brochure stand and got the book, and showed him what was on the front inside cover
I went over to the brochure stand and got the book, and showed him what was on the front inside cover
Yep, only the muscle car guys are going care if it had a V8 and we knew it what the new Dart was about the first time we seen it. The rest see the Dart as inexpensive economy car.
ironpony
Nitro Member
Monzas, Vegas, and Pintos were 4 bangers from the factory, economy cars for the working man. THEY were the PREMIER Pro Stock cars too.
They are the ones we all want to go back to, the GLORY DAYS.
So it is not so much the model they start with it is what they end up looking like.
We all knew what came to the line in the 70's-80's, now you need a decal to tell,
OH WAIT if it is Pro Stock time it is a Camaro
They are the ones we all want to go back to, the GLORY DAYS.
So it is not so much the model they start with it is what they end up looking like.
We all knew what came to the line in the 70's-80's, now you need a decal to tell,
OH WAIT if it is Pro Stock time it is a Camaro
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
who would've thought that the NHRA's perfect "car of tomorrow" would have the same dimensions as a Camaro? Spooky .......
Ice Bucket
Nitro Member
It's kinda sad watching pro stock die a slow death that in my opinion started about 15 years ago. We all have our perceived "hay day" of motor sports and it usually based on our age. For me, I think the early and mid 90's were NHRA pro stocks best years. It was also the time this slow death might have started. You had guys like Steve Schmidt and Maskin renting motors that could qualify at prices that could be justified. I use the term justified very loosely and mean it made since to rent, rather than to buy or develop your own.
Towards the late 90's the rental/lease prices were out of control. This forced the serious players to open their own shops to stay competitive. So, it went from $15K per weekend to a Million a year to have your own shop to be a top 5 contender. The "rich guys" who brought a lot of depth and character to the class soon became priced out.
Another thing to not lose sight of is the disappearance of a couple of long time GM brands. So, how did we become "Pro Camaro Eliminator"? Up until about 1997, we had Pontiac, Olds, Chevy on the GM side and the lone Mopar and Ford to add a little excitement to the mix.
I feel like the rule changes did not have much effect on anything but the owners wallets and I miss the hood scopes. What is my suggestion on how to save the class? Spec heads and manifolds. These are the two most expensive parts of the yearly budget do to R&D. This would allow great engine builders who dont have the R&D budget of Gray and KB to showcase their motors. Just my $.02
Towards the late 90's the rental/lease prices were out of control. This forced the serious players to open their own shops to stay competitive. So, it went from $15K per weekend to a Million a year to have your own shop to be a top 5 contender. The "rich guys" who brought a lot of depth and character to the class soon became priced out.
Another thing to not lose sight of is the disappearance of a couple of long time GM brands. So, how did we become "Pro Camaro Eliminator"? Up until about 1997, we had Pontiac, Olds, Chevy on the GM side and the lone Mopar and Ford to add a little excitement to the mix.
I feel like the rule changes did not have much effect on anything but the owners wallets and I miss the hood scopes. What is my suggestion on how to save the class? Spec heads and manifolds. These are the two most expensive parts of the yearly budget do to R&D. This would allow great engine builders who dont have the R&D budget of Gray and KB to showcase their motors. Just my $.02
There's no easy fix, for any of the classes. These are all classes that have, matured. Slowing fuel cars down or making Pro Stock affordable is not an easy task. Simple maybe, not easy. These are classes that have been progressing for decades to get where we are. Maybe I'm nuts, but if you want to foster expansion in these classes, you need a hard reset. It's not rocket science. Fuel cars need a rules package that puts them somewhere in between nostalgia cars and current big show cars. PS needs to resemble something like AJ was referencing in the Complus article. The big teams will fight these moves, but the cars are almost expendable anyway, what matters is the millions of dollars that the teams have invested in infrastructure will still hold value. Announcing new rules packages say, a year in advance, may feel like a taking a step backwards, but I think would lead to 2-3 steps forward pretty quick.
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
how it was, right before EFI
how it was, before everything else
how it was, before everything else
All the hot rodders knew the Vegas and Pintos were RWD and easy to drop a small block into.
The Monzas came from the factory with RWD and V8s.
Pro Stock started getting expensive when Grumpy was allowed, through a very liberal interpretation of the rulebook, to use a tube chassis and given a huge weight break for using a small block in his Vega.
The Monzas came from the factory with RWD and V8s.
Pro Stock started getting expensive when Grumpy was allowed, through a very liberal interpretation of the rulebook, to use a tube chassis and given a huge weight break for using a small block in his Vega.
Ice Bucket
Nitro Member
I am in favor of a hard reset in the majority of the classes. This thread is a about PS and it went from a play ground for millionaires, to a play ground for billionaires. As for the fuel classes, if Forest Lucas cant justify the spend on the advertising return it should be very eye opening. Outside of 6-8 teams in ALL of the pro categories, there are not any legit full/big time sponsors that do not have a business connection with the team or driver. In other words, NHRA team sponsorship is not a good choice for advertising. So, there are two choices, get more fans or make it less expensive to race. It is a lot easier to get a million$ deal than a 3 million$ deal. While were at it, lets take away throttle stops and require clutches in pro mod.
mick
Nitro Member
IMO the lucas TF operation plays to a different audience than does their sponsorship of LODRS. different audiences, different tv packages, different expectations, just as their off-road series sponsorship plays to a cross section of off road enthusiasts who don't necessarily bridge over to drag racing.......nhra.com reported all this increase in ratings and attendance, but the actual numbers paint a different picture......if nhra nat. events and nhra/fox network coverage were truly growing, i think you'd probably still see lucas oil running a 2-car TF operation.
The Lucas product company has the money if not much more to run with the current "Big" teams out there in NHRA.
The reason that Morgan stepped out and this is "just my thought", Forrest is getting in, let's say " His Golden years." where he wants to step back and hand the reigns to Morgan so Forrest can step back and appreciate the empire that he has built.
If you look at what Forrest has done as support for the other sanctioning bodies to promote his business, product lines and not just in the automotive industry but fire arms lubricants etc. is incredible!
I'm surprised that he hasn't come up with a Cooking oil or "non-stick" guaranteed not to scorch or burn while cooking product line because he has the Elite of chemists helping him develop the products that have made him so successful.
If you think that he is running out of money, You're sadly wrong because he would be pulling on the plug on the other bodies.
When he runs one of his T/F cars down the track in 3.7 seconds with no camera exposure for $10,000 + per run, Is it beneficial to his company?
Well, No compared to other sports that he sponsors financially. It kinda aggravates me that the NHRA cameras are basically focused on at least the 2 big teams.
IMO, Morgan has A tall order to fill let alone run a T/F car, I'm surprised that he isn't bald yet from pulling his hair out.
The reason that Morgan stepped out and this is "just my thought", Forrest is getting in, let's say " His Golden years." where he wants to step back and hand the reigns to Morgan so Forrest can step back and appreciate the empire that he has built.
If you look at what Forrest has done as support for the other sanctioning bodies to promote his business, product lines and not just in the automotive industry but fire arms lubricants etc. is incredible!
I'm surprised that he hasn't come up with a Cooking oil or "non-stick" guaranteed not to scorch or burn while cooking product line because he has the Elite of chemists helping him develop the products that have made him so successful.
If you think that he is running out of money, You're sadly wrong because he would be pulling on the plug on the other bodies.
When he runs one of his T/F cars down the track in 3.7 seconds with no camera exposure for $10,000 + per run, Is it beneficial to his company?
Well, No compared to other sports that he sponsors financially. It kinda aggravates me that the NHRA cameras are basically focused on at least the 2 big teams.
IMO, Morgan has A tall order to fill let alone run a T/F car, I'm surprised that he isn't bald yet from pulling his hair out.
ironpony
Nitro Member
Morgan has a huge learning curve in front of him, he is going to become "manager" of a HUGE corporation. No time for him to play. Lucas can easily run a couple of TF teams, however they have decided it is not in their best interest to do so at this time. Maybe TF was a time for Morgan to learn, mature and have some fun before taking over the business.
Remember no one is making money in TF, it is a playground for the rich and we get to watch.
Remember no one is making money in TF, it is a playground for the rich and we get to watch.
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