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What is the Future? (1 Viewer)

stitcherbob

Nitro Member
This could get real political, but EV cars in the future will be so expensive and so technologically advanced that you will not OWN your car....the gov't will. It's going to apply to everything, if you let them do it to you...
 

mick

Nitro Member
IMO in the next 10-20 years the biggest change we'll see with EV's will be public and commercial transportation, and not residential privately owned vehicles.
not sure if EV's have cold climates figured out, or long haul antonomous trucks.........large metro areas will increase EV's in public trans. (city buses and rail).......commercial fleets
that operate within large metro areas (amazon EV vans running ads now)........wondering if we'll see smaller EV's too? like mini-cars? and lots of various 2-wheelers? again, almost
exclusively in large metro areas, not so much rural and cold climates. ....... even the enormous briteline train project in FL scheduled to complete thru orlando next year, and points
west thereafter, are diesel-electric trains
 

Jack

Nitro Member
Serious question, what does it cost to recharge an electric car? If you use a roadside charging station, how does it bill you?

Alan
Varies based on the cost per KWH in the area your charging and the type of charger being used. KWH in most residential areas ranges from ..10 to .15. Tesla charges .28 per KWH. At a Tesla fast charge station it will run between $14.00 to 18.00 to to fully charge the car.
 

ol21stud

Nitro Member
In 1990 I was teaching high school and adult ed. Auto Mechanics. Many students, both high school and adult ed., lamented that fuel injection had replaced carbs as they could tune a carb (kind-a) but knew nothing about those new electric pulsed fuel injectors. I remember telling them that pressure spraying fuel was much better than sucking it in by piston vacuum, but whoever invented a way to spray fuel directly into the combustion chamber would have a world beater. That was science fiction stuff at the time. Twenty years later it was common practice and the good stuff had a turbo or supercharger pushing the air into that fuel injected cylinder head. The electric cars of today are the equivalent of the mechanical fuel injection on the early 60’s Corvettes. Yeah, it was cool in its day, but to go fast drag racing back then, you swapped it for two four barrels. (Bo Laws.. may he rest in peace.) Nobody knows what the future will bring to drag racing popularity in just 10 years. Will the 2031 Factory Stock Showdown Champion be a Tesla or Mustang Mach E? I probably won’t be around to care.
 

vegasnitro

Nitro Member
A LOT of TERRIBLE information in this thread.

You do not need to "have your house rewired" to charge the car. ALL current electric cars will charge at home on 110V that is in your house now, it just takes significantly longer to charge from zero. Here is the catch, your car will rarely be at zero at home. How often do you drive 300+ miles a day? Most Americans drive 30 miles a day. In that scenario, most people only plug their cars in to their regular old 110V twice a week. You can upgrade a plug in your home to 240V or 480V which speeds up charging, but you will have to pay for that, and in the case of 480V, get your local power company to sign off on it first. As said earlier, range is increasing and charge times decreasing almost by month. The new Mercedes EQS will launch with 460 miles of range. The Porsche Taycan, while being a fantastic performance car by any measure, will get nearly 400 miles in "comfort mode", it's lowest setting, which is still pretty awesome.

The government will NOT "own" the fleet of vehicles people use daily, in America at least. It is generally thought that when full autonomy is achieved (which is still YEARS away), the average consumer will migrate to a subscription based service. Tesla, Uber, Lyft, Apple and Google are all going to be players in this space, and the manufacturers will be right there with them. You will pay a monthly fee roughly equivalent to the car payment of the service you choose, Mercedes will be more expensive than Uber for example. With your subscription, you will be able to schedule rides for work/school/medical and have a number of "wild card" rides for going out to dinner or a sporting event or visiting friends/family outside of your normal schedule. This will also scale up price wise, the more rides you need, the more you will pay. "Rich" people will still own their own cars, or anybody willing to take on the expense.

You can order your Teslas RIGHT NOW with a solar roof package. It does 2 things. Charges your battery and runs your climate control system while the vehicle is parked. No more coming out of the store to a hot or cold car. Current battery charging technology from the solar roof is limited, it will extend your range 15-20 miles over the course of a day, but that could be all you need in a low charge situation. Here is a crazy thought ... you don't run your car out of gas now ... so don't run your batteries dead in the future. Wild thought, I know.

The non-standardized charging port is a HUGE problem, there is no way around that. VW/Audi/Porsche are going to build 2500 charging stations in the USA in the next 5 years, but if you have a Tesla, or Mercedes EQS or Chevy Bolt, those 2500 stations are useless for you. It would be like having a car that could only go to BP gas stations, then Shell, Chevron, Arco would all be useless to you. Ridiculous. Standardization should have happened years ago, and it needs to happen now.

The grid COULD be an issue, but at the current adoption rate of electric vehicles, it will be a LONG time before we reach a tipping point. Ford still sells more F-150s in a quarter in the USA than all electric vehicles sold worldwide in a year. None of you care about running your air conditioners 24/7 and all of your neighbors doing the same at the same time, so please don't pretend you will care your neighbor has their Chevy Bolt plugged in too.

If you need to drive 300+ miles a day, or if you need to tow a boat or race car, or if you just trust old technology more than new technology, the internal combustion engine is not going anywhere any time soon. You will still be able to drive a car/truck that is very much like the one you have now for the foreseeable future . In fact, there are some interesting technologies coming down the pike that will EXTEND the life of the combustion engine. Porsche has developed a carbon neutral synthetic fuel. High efficiency catalysts without rare earth metals are coming. Energy recovery systems from combustion engines for hybrid power trains have prompted Ferrari to say their vaunted V12 isn't going anywhere, and they will be able to meet gas guzzler and California pollution requirements. Imagine that, a high performance Ferrari that will get better gas mileage than many cars now and pollute less than your lawn mower ... with a V12.

Lastly, I will tell you guys this. I have been lucky in my life, I have driven Lambos, Porsche Turbos, GTRs, lots of AMGs and M cars. Lots of heavily modified street cars. I can tell you this, the Tesla Model S P100D was HANDS DOWN the quickest car I have ever driven. Put it in "Ludicrous Mode" and hit 60MPH in 2 seconds and 100MPH in less time than almost any car does 60. It will flat rip your face off and squeeze the air out of your lungs. And it was a 2017 model. The new Tesla Roadster will smoke that 2017 Model S. I don't really care about any "green agenda", but I would love to own a Tesla or a Porsche Taycan and drive around town and hurt feelings all day long.

You guys can wring your hands and play Chicken Little regarding the future of cars, but we have access to amazing technology right now, and it is only going to get better. I am EXCITED for what the future holds.
 
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4onthefl4

Nitro Member
A LOT of TERRIBLE information in this thread.

You do not need to "have your house rewired" to charge the car. ALL current electric cars will charge at home on 110V that is in your house now, it just takes significantly longer to charge from zero. Here is the catch, your car will rarely be at zero at home. How often do you drive 300+ miles a day? Most Americans drive 30 miles a day. In that scenario, most people only plug their cars in to their regular old 110V twice a week. You can upgrade to 240V or 480V which speeds up charging, but you will have to pay for that, and in the case of 480V, get your local power company to sign off on it first. As said earlier, range is increasing and charge times decreasing almost by month. The new Mercedes EQS will launch with 460 miles of range. The Porsche Taycan, while being a fantastic performance car by any measure, will get nearly 400 miles in "comfort mode", it's lowest setting, which is still pretty awesome.
OK, I didn't explain myself about rewiring your whole house. What I meant ,was you do need a special 110V plug for charging.
You guys can wring your hands and play Chicken Little regarding the future of cars, but we have access to amazing technology right now, and it is only going to get better. I am EXCITED for what the future holds.
As I stated, EV is the future of cars and I wouldn't mind owning one myself for local trips.
 

Nunz

Nitro Member
A LOT of TERRIBLE information in this thread.

You do not need to "have your house rewired" to charge the car. ALL current electric cars will charge at home on 110V that is in your house now, it just takes significantly longer to charge from zero. Here is the catch, your car will rarely be at zero at home. How often do you drive 300+ miles a day? Most Americans drive 30 miles a day. In that scenario, most people only plug their cars in to their regular old 110V twice a week. You can upgrade to 240V or 480V which speeds up charging, but you will have to pay for that, and in the case of 480V, get your local power company to sign off on it first. As said earlier, range is increasing and charge times decreasing almost by month. The new Mercedes EQS will launch with 460 miles of range. The Porsche Taycan, while being a fantastic performance car by any measure, will get nearly 400 miles in "comfort mode", it's lowest setting, which is still pretty awesome.

The government will NOT "own" the fleet of vehicles people use daily, in America at least. It is generally thought that when full autonomy is achieved (which is still YEARS away), the average consumer will migrate to a subscription based service. Tesla, Uber, Lyft, Apple and Google are all going to be players in this space, and the manufacturers will be right there with them. You will pay a monthly fee roughly equivalent to the car payment of the service you choose, Mercedes will be more expensive than Uber for example. With your subscription, you will be able to schedule rides for work/school/medical and have a number of "wild card" rides for going out to dinner or a sporting event or visiting friends/family outside of your normal schedule. This will also scale up price wise, the more rides you need, the more you will pay. "Rich" people will still own their own cars, or anybody willing to take on the expense.

You can order your Teslas RIGHT NOW with a solar roof package. It does 2 things. Charges your battery and runs your climate control system while the vehicle is parked. No more coming out of the store to a hot or cold car. Current battery charging technology from the solar roof is limited, it will extend your range 15-20 miles over the course of a day, but that could be all you need in a low charge situation. Here is a crazy thought ... you don't run your car out of gas now ... so don't run your batteries dead in the future. Wild thought, I know.

The non-standardized charging port is a HUGE problem, there is no way around that. VW/Audi/Porsche are going to build 2500 charging stations in the USA in the next 5 years, but if you have a Tesla, or Mercedes EQS or Chevy Bolt, those 2500 stations are useless for you. It would be like having a car that could only go to BP gas stations, then Shell, Chevron, Arco would all be useless to you. Ridiculous. Standardization should have happened years ago, and it needs to happen now.

The grid COULD be an issue, but at the current adoption rate of electric vehicles, it will be a LONG time before we reach a tipping point. Ford still sells more F-150s in a quarter in the USA than all electric vehicles sold worldwide in a year. None of you care about running your air conditioners 24/7 and all of your neighbors doing the same at the same time, so please don't pretend you will care your neighbor has their Chevy Bolt plugged in too.

If you need to drive 300+ miles a day, or if you need to tow a boat or race car, or if you just trust old technology more than new technology, the internal combustion engine is not going anywhere any time soon. You will still be able to drive a car/truck that is very much like the one you have now for the foreseeable future . In fact, there are some interesting technologies coming down the pike that will EXTEND the life of the combustion engine. Porsche has developed a carbon neutral synthetic fuel. High efficiency catalysts without rare earth metals are coming. Energy recovery systems from combustion engines for hybrid power trains have prompted Ferrari to say their vaunted V12 isn't going anywhere, and they will be able to meet gas guzzler and California pollution requirements. Imagine that, a high performance Ferrari that will get better gas mileage than many cars now and pollute less than your lawn mower ... with a V12.

Lastly, I will tell you guys this. I have been lucky in my life, I have driven Lambos, Porsche Turbos, GTRs, lots of AMGs and M cars. Lots of heavily modified street cars. I can tell you this, the Tesla Model S P100D was HANDS DOWN the quickest car I have ever driven. Put it in "Ludicrous Mode" and hit 60MPH in 2 seconds and 100MPH in less time than almost any car does 60. It will flat rip your face off and squeeze the air out of your lungs. And it was a 2017 model. The new Tesla Roadster will smoke that 2017 Model S. I don't really care about any "green agenda", but I would love to own a Tesla or a Porsche Taycan and drive around town and hurt feelings all day long.

You guys can wring your hands and play Chicken Little regarding the future of cars, but we have access to amazing technology right now, and it is only going to get better. I am EXCITED for what the future holds.
Great post Chris. I actually learned a lot! I was going to mention in an earlier post that it seems odd that there is such a push toward EV when we have come so far with Internal Combustion engine technology, both in lower emissions and fuel efficiency, so I thought that was pretty exciting to hear you say there is even more progress on the horizon.
 

sammi

Nitro Member
Never let the facts get in the way of what OAN or Fox tells us is truth.

The government a)if Republican run only wants to improve the bottom line for its donors b)if Democrat run, wants our lives to be better, but it will cost you in terms of behavior. I don't think either lost tribe wants to take away our cars or racing.
 

vegasnitro

Nitro Member
OK, I didn't explain myself about rewiring your whole house. What I meant ,was you do need a special 110V plug for charging.

As I stated, EV is the future of cars and I wouldn't mind owning one myself for local trips.

I am not aware of a "special 110V plug for charging". Every EV I know of comes with a charge cord that will work on a standard 3 prong 15A 110V plug, just like your TV or fridge. If it didn't come with the cord, these are not hard to get from the dealer or the aftermarket. Installing a 20A 110V "winky plug" will marginally decrease charging time, but it is not necessary. And really, if you are going to pay an electrician to rewire the outlet, may as well move up to 240V.

Another thing for everyone else in the thread, there is no real concern for climate (weather). Electric cars work just fine in any climate where people live. Most EVs have built in battery warmers/coolers and the car performs just fine at -20F or 120F. They will do better than your combustion vehicle at high altitudes because nothing is being burnt, so if you live in ABQ or Denver, you do not lose range or efficiency because of thin air. It helps to remember that these companies want to sell as many cars as possible, so they have to engineer them to be saleable in the broadest range of circumstances as possible.
 
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Jack

Nitro Member
I am not aware of a "special 110V plug for charging". Every EV I know of comes with a charge cord that will work on a standard 3 prong 15A 110V plug, just like your TV or fridge. If it didn't come with the cord, these are not hard to get from the dealer or the aftermarket. Installing a 20A 110V "winky plug" will marginally decrease charging time, but it is not necessary. And really, if you are going to pay an electrician to rewire the outlet, may as well move up to 240V.

Another thing for everyone else in the thread, there is no real concern for climate. Electric cars work just fine in any climate where people live. Most EVs have built in battery warmers/coolers and the car performs just fine at -20F or 120F. They will do better than your combustion vehicle at high altitudes because nothing is being burnt, so if you live in ABQ or Denver, you do not lose range or efficiency because of thin air. It helps to remember that these companies want to sell as many cars as possible, so they have to engineer them to be saleable in the broadest range of circumstances as possible.
lots of good points made Chris. They do however lose 30 to 40 % of their range in cold climates. My sister lives in Maine up by the Canadian border and her 2020 Tesla which normally has a 280 mile rage drops to 160 to 180 miles.when the temps there drop to 30 degrees and below which is common for three or four months a year. She charges off of 110v at home and when down to 20% or so and it takes 10 to 12 hours for a full charge.
 

stitcherbob

Nitro Member
My friend worked for both Cutler Hammer and Ingersoll Rand a while ago, and at one of those he had seen a vehicle (step van?) that was experimental. It ran like a diesel locomotive, with the motor turning a generator that powered 4 electric wheel motors.
My idea for an electric car would be to take something like the big Tesla sedan, remove most of the batteries, install a very small jet turbine engine that runs a generator at high rpm's.
Well insulated and noise suppressed, it would use very little fuel to generate the juice, the batteries would be for added range or if you ran out of JP-1 or kerosene , or even Kentucky bourbon if you wish.
The exhaust smells good...like VP- C16 ;)
 

Mike

Nitro Member
Chris, one point, yes we all run our ac units and I'm not going to complain about one bolt but you start with a big push to electric cars and it will tax the grid. I live in California and already have those wonderful rolling blackouts. Put a bunch of electric cars on the grid and it will get worse
 

vegasnitro

Nitro Member
lots of good points made Chris. They do however lose 30 to 40 % of their range in cold climates. My sister lives in Maine up by the Canadian border and her 2020 Tesla which normally has a 280 mile rage drops to 160 to 180 miles.when the temps there drop to 30 degrees and below which is common for three or four months a year. She charges off of 110v at home and when down to 20% or so and it takes 10 to 12 hours for a full charge.

This seemed bizarre to me, and in doing a little research, it is still possible to buy a Model 3 without battery warmers, it is a way to meet the price point. That was pretty shocking to me. All Model Xs, Ys and Ss come with battery warmers to maintain consistent range, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the Model 3. So my guess is your Sister has a model 3? Hopefully in the Winter she doesn't have a long commute.

Other than decreased range in cold weather, how does she like the car?
 

DanTheFan

Nitro Member
While true you can charge with 110v, I think you’d often regret that. If you’re spending $40k to $80k on a new car, you should wire for the 220. If you don’t have the $1000 for that, you prob shouldn’t be buying a car that costs 60 times that. IMHO.
 

FABMAN

Nitro Member
Exactly. Right now, the biggest obstacle to climb with EVs is the range and charge times. If whomever can come up with a system where the charger can make the car go from 10% to 100% in 15 minutes or less it will really help EVs get a foothold on the marketplace.

BTW... I forget his name but there is an EV racer who said that thanks to the lack of engine noise he hears things on the car that he didn't hear before that helps out a lot.
If want to hear your car make noise just through it in *N* and kill the motor especially Stick cars and it will scare the hell out of you😳
 

Jack

Nitro Member
This seemed bizarre to me, and in doing a little research, it is still possible to buy a Model 3 without battery warmers, it is a way to meet the price point. That was pretty shocking to me. All Model Xs, Ys and Ss come with battery warmers to maintain consistent range, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the Model 3. So my guess is your Sister has a model 3? Hopefully in the Winter she doesn't have a long commute.

Other than decreased range in cold weather, how does she like the car?
It is a 3 and she likes it a lot. The average high temp in Jan and Feb is low 20's lows single digits to minus zero so it's a bit chilly for extended periods of time. I looked at the Tesla owner forums, consumer reports and a few other Tesla chat rooms today and the range loss in that type of weather seems pretty common to my sisters experience. She drives around100 miles per day so she keeps an eye on her charge and reserve levels.
 

Ted

Nitro Member
The future is electric cars for sure. Even if the net gain for the environment is minimal, they do one key thing:
The move the emissions from the city out to where the electricity is generated, which usually far away from the city. This "spreads out" the pollution and could go a long way to eliminating "smog alerts" and the filthy air in our population centers.

For performance enthusiast there is nothing better than max torque instantly.
For the once a year long trip people will just rent a gas vehicle.
For us nitro lovers, we can relax. They still race horses don't they?
 
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