4 wide sucks big!! I don't care if they run 5280' or 12 feet. You won't ever catch me at one again nor do I watch it on TV. As a matter of fact it resulted in me only attending 3 or 4 races as opposed to the 17 to20 I used to attend. Seemed like I lost a lot of interest after that.
Vegas Going 4 Wide (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Paul
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4 wide sucks big!! I don't care if they run 5280' or 12 feet. You won't ever catch me at one again nor do I watch it on TV. As a matter of fact it resulted in me only attending 3 or 4 races as opposed to the 17 to20 I used to attend. Seemed like I lost a lot of interest after that.
my friends call me Zappy
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There is only one 4-wide race. If you dropped from 17 to 3 races a year, something else is P___sing you off.
I guess your right, 4 wide was like the final blow. Last year was 3 and so far this year I've attended none with very weak plans for perhaps Dallas, Vegas and/or Pomona depending on how knee replacement surgery on both knees goes. Honestly, I'm not very excited about going at all.
my friends call me Zappy
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I've always wanted to go to a VEGAS race, or a TEXAS race. Haven't made either one yet. Best of luck on yer surgery sir.
funnycarguy
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I have tried to watch it on TV. Hard to watch. Sorry Bruton. Love the Strip but please don't do this....don't need a circus show. Been that last 5 years. Only race I go to now that is big show.
Treeshaker
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Is it your habit to eat the same meal 3 times a day 7 days a week 52 weeks every year? When you finish reading a book, do you change where you are sitting and read it again? Do you only go to one movie but in different theaters? No one answers yes to those questions because variety is the spice of life.
But from reading the current crop of posts on this forum, we don't like 4 wide, 1,000' or 1/8th mile racing, models in the picture during interviews, sponsors presenting trophies to winners, corporate induced answers in interviews, random interviews interspersed with the show, mascots running around (forgot that was another series all together), Bruton Smith because he thinks differently than most, the countdown, qualifying procedures, oil down rules, allowing 5 year olds a safe place to learn the sport, or anything else that somebody might be trying that is different in an effort to induce some additional life into a sport that needs the help.
Promoters do not market their show to the less than 100 posters on this forum, but to the general population surrounding their event. They need to grab their attention with promises of a show that will entertain them, then provide the show that will attack all their senses in a clean and safe enviroment that will make them want to return the next year.
But from reading the current crop of posts on this forum, we don't like 4 wide, 1,000' or 1/8th mile racing, models in the picture during interviews, sponsors presenting trophies to winners, corporate induced answers in interviews, random interviews interspersed with the show, mascots running around (forgot that was another series all together), Bruton Smith because he thinks differently than most, the countdown, qualifying procedures, oil down rules, allowing 5 year olds a safe place to learn the sport, or anything else that somebody might be trying that is different in an effort to induce some additional life into a sport that needs the help.
Promoters do not market their show to the less than 100 posters on this forum, but to the general population surrounding their event. They need to grab their attention with promises of a show that will entertain them, then provide the show that will attack all their senses in a clean and safe enviroment that will make them want to return the next year.
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and by the numbers in the stands and the TV ratings it appears they are still missing Virgil.
You make change to grow, to improve and to gain. You don't do it just for the sake of change and you be careful to not leave your devoted customers behind in search of new ones. If you don't gain new customers with the tricks, you may also chase away the old one. The guy walking down the road with the giant gauges in his ears, isn't looked at by most of us as some genius of change, but just a knucklehead. Change needs to have purpose, a goal and most of a all a measure of success/fail to see if more changes or a return need to be made. Remember New Coke?
If we are just going to change for change, just to add excitement then why not any of the following:
Why don't we have them race backwards?
Why don't we have the race should include time in the pits. All cars wait at the shutdown area, crews can't touch them. Once both pairings for the next round are set, they race back to the pits, complete the turn-around and head to the line. Doesn't matter if the other car is there. This would be made for live tv then.
Don't bother with a qualifying order, teams draw from a hat who they race first round. If you pick a number 1-16 you are in and race the usual number (i.e. 8v9, 1v 16 etc). Imagine John Force being the last person to draw and only number 17 and 2 are left. Does he get to race the next day? The suspense, the drama again this would make for great live tv. The relief is he draws #2 vs the rant when he gets bounced by drawing #17.
After all, it's all about entertainment right?
As for the other threads you mentioned, people see what they want. I believe the tone of the model/sponsor thread wasn't so much against them. But the obvious awkwardness of all of them trying to cram into the picture.
Basketball, football, soccer and hockey all seem to be able to have the same rules and fields at each game and fans will come. So there is no need to rush to change drag racing based on that alone. Does that mean that things can't be looked at? Of course not.
4wide-tried it in person, thinking it would be cool. Felt and sounded cool but meh on actual racing. Still if they want to do it at ONE race a year, go for it. I'll gladly give up my seat to someone who wants to see that. The worry when they did it was that it would be expanded. It appears it will. Does it stop at 2? Burton owns many tracks and apparently has the power to tell NHRA what he wants.
1000' sure it was for safety. That's fine. Make tracks that can handle 1320' be able to run that. Now you have 3 versions of tracks to race on in a season.
I don't think you can ever make everyone happy. But fans in the stands(or watching TV) are a good sign as to what works and what doesn't. It really doesn't appear that many of the changes over the past several years have had the positive growth impact that they needed to.
You make change to grow, to improve and to gain. You don't do it just for the sake of change and you be careful to not leave your devoted customers behind in search of new ones. If you don't gain new customers with the tricks, you may also chase away the old one. The guy walking down the road with the giant gauges in his ears, isn't looked at by most of us as some genius of change, but just a knucklehead. Change needs to have purpose, a goal and most of a all a measure of success/fail to see if more changes or a return need to be made. Remember New Coke?
If we are just going to change for change, just to add excitement then why not any of the following:
Why don't we have them race backwards?
Why don't we have the race should include time in the pits. All cars wait at the shutdown area, crews can't touch them. Once both pairings for the next round are set, they race back to the pits, complete the turn-around and head to the line. Doesn't matter if the other car is there. This would be made for live tv then.
Don't bother with a qualifying order, teams draw from a hat who they race first round. If you pick a number 1-16 you are in and race the usual number (i.e. 8v9, 1v 16 etc). Imagine John Force being the last person to draw and only number 17 and 2 are left. Does he get to race the next day? The suspense, the drama again this would make for great live tv. The relief is he draws #2 vs the rant when he gets bounced by drawing #17.
After all, it's all about entertainment right?
As for the other threads you mentioned, people see what they want. I believe the tone of the model/sponsor thread wasn't so much against them. But the obvious awkwardness of all of them trying to cram into the picture.
Basketball, football, soccer and hockey all seem to be able to have the same rules and fields at each game and fans will come. So there is no need to rush to change drag racing based on that alone. Does that mean that things can't be looked at? Of course not.
4wide-tried it in person, thinking it would be cool. Felt and sounded cool but meh on actual racing. Still if they want to do it at ONE race a year, go for it. I'll gladly give up my seat to someone who wants to see that. The worry when they did it was that it would be expanded. It appears it will. Does it stop at 2? Burton owns many tracks and apparently has the power to tell NHRA what he wants.
1000' sure it was for safety. That's fine. Make tracks that can handle 1320' be able to run that. Now you have 3 versions of tracks to race on in a season.
I don't think you can ever make everyone happy. But fans in the stands(or watching TV) are a good sign as to what works and what doesn't. It really doesn't appear that many of the changes over the past several years have had the positive growth impact that they needed to.
Jimbo
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What I am seeing here is that up until this "highly speculative" thread started, the Mater looked at Bruton Smith as the savior of NHRA and the guy that gets what it takes to grow the sport. Now it sounds like the group here would turn their collective backs on Bruton based on 4 wide. Which is it gang ... is he a genius or not?
Very fickle (and easily swayed) group here.
I think Burton Smith is a very smart and savvy business man but I simply do not like 4- wide drag racing.
It's also worth remembering that Burton Smith would have liked to purchase the N.H.R.A. a few years ago. I understand from a business mans point of view the reasons for going 4- wide and increasing seats and trying to put on a better show.
Just my opinion. Jimbo
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com
Very fickle (and easily swayed) group here.
I think Burton Smith is a very smart and savvy business man but I simply do not like 4- wide drag racing.
It's also worth remembering that Burton Smith would have liked to purchase the N.H.R.A. a few years ago. I understand from a business mans point of view the reasons for going 4- wide and increasing seats and trying to put on a better show.
Just my opinion. Jimbo
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com
Treeshaker
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Good to hear from you MaC, Hope everything is hunky-dory with you and yours.
PJ - Your posts border on the ........... and make you seem to be .................
I see first hand the general media coverage in the south east for the 4 wide in Charlotte compared to the regular national events in Charlotte and Atlanta. I live closer to the Atlanta track (60 miles) than Charlotte (110 miles) and there is no comparison of the coverage, 4 wide by a land slide. If that isn't a positive I don't know what is then. Sure it won't change the attendance in Chicago or New Jersey but it did in Charlotte. And I believe that is why Bruton would be considering it for Las Vegas.
All major sports constantly make rule changes to alter the show that they are putting on so that they increase attendance. Not everything works, but nothing will happen if they don't try. Real Coke may have failed, but Coca Cola is still the largest soft drink company in the world and they are still bringing out new products.
My comments about the negativity around here still stand.
PJ - Your posts border on the ........... and make you seem to be .................
I see first hand the general media coverage in the south east for the 4 wide in Charlotte compared to the regular national events in Charlotte and Atlanta. I live closer to the Atlanta track (60 miles) than Charlotte (110 miles) and there is no comparison of the coverage, 4 wide by a land slide. If that isn't a positive I don't know what is then. Sure it won't change the attendance in Chicago or New Jersey but it did in Charlotte. And I believe that is why Bruton would be considering it for Las Vegas.
All major sports constantly make rule changes to alter the show that they are putting on so that they increase attendance. Not everything works, but nothing will happen if they don't try. Real Coke may have failed, but Coca Cola is still the largest soft drink company in the world and they are still bringing out new products.
My comments about the negativity around here still stand.
Toejam
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Virgil, I have always maintained that 4-wide racing wouldn't be so bad if you had 22-24 cars in each Fuel class! 16-18 cars is just 4 laps per Q session, not to mention the longer clean-ups! Do you think a 4-wide race during the countdown makes sense?
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I am all for change if it useful and effective.
While I would love to continue going back on forth over real verse imagined growth, it seems it would be pointless on both of our ends. My intentional absurdness seems to have missed the point. As you say my post(s) make me sound like......??? While yours strike me as someone not wanting to make anyone mad so that you can go out an play in their playground once in awhile. I can't be angry with that position as I understand, and have had to, speak from that position before. I will just have to agree to disagree then.
Forgive me for looking at this as a place where we can shoot the S and debate a bit. Be it with haters, kool-aid drinkers and the rest.
There was a time when this was labeled a butt-kisser fan-boy site. Oddly, I was often blamed at being one of the worst offenders as I often tried to support the NHRA. Now, I question things which I guess makes me a hater.
White hat, black hat.....I'm just hear for the conversation.
Fire the next pair
While I would love to continue going back on forth over real verse imagined growth, it seems it would be pointless on both of our ends. My intentional absurdness seems to have missed the point. As you say my post(s) make me sound like......??? While yours strike me as someone not wanting to make anyone mad so that you can go out an play in their playground once in awhile. I can't be angry with that position as I understand, and have had to, speak from that position before. I will just have to agree to disagree then.
Forgive me for looking at this as a place where we can shoot the S and debate a bit. Be it with haters, kool-aid drinkers and the rest.
There was a time when this was labeled a butt-kisser fan-boy site. Oddly, I was often blamed at being one of the worst offenders as I often tried to support the NHRA. Now, I question things which I guess makes me a hater.
White hat, black hat.....I'm just hear for the conversation.
Fire the next pair
robslob
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When Mr. Parks sent Evans,Coons,Mann, and Cannon off as the Safety Safari in1954, he did so with 2 decades of inline racing under his belt. The mold was set with hard lessons already learned on the lakes and salt. Drag racing is, was, and always will be TWO cars competing over a measured distance. The airfields changed into drag strips were wide enough to have 3,4,5,6,... of those 50's honkers and stockers run side by side, but for safety, it was a 2 car contest.
It is a proven fact that as results are doubled the effort is exponential. To double the speed, it takes 4 times the horsepower. Double the rpm and 4 times the force tries to throw the piston to the moon at the end of the exhaust stroke.
What happens to the wing vortex on a top fueler when it is blown over by the exhaust upforce one(s) next to it ? The effects of aerodynamics also is increased exponetially to the multiplier of speed. Is it not safe to assume that the danger is also increased the same? Twice the cars on the track, 4 times the peril?
My concern is the safety of N.H.R.A. drivers. Mr Smith changing Wally's great vision just for an increase in attendance is of very little importance to me...
It is a proven fact that as results are doubled the effort is exponential. To double the speed, it takes 4 times the horsepower. Double the rpm and 4 times the force tries to throw the piston to the moon at the end of the exhaust stroke.
What happens to the wing vortex on a top fueler when it is blown over by the exhaust upforce one(s) next to it ? The effects of aerodynamics also is increased exponetially to the multiplier of speed. Is it not safe to assume that the danger is also increased the same? Twice the cars on the track, 4 times the peril?
My concern is the safety of N.H.R.A. drivers. Mr Smith changing Wally's great vision just for an increase in attendance is of very little importance to me...
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vegasnitro
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Robert, I have no concerns over aerodynamic anomalies with 4 wide racing. They would have to get very close together (as within a car width or 2) to start doing weird stuff. We can see it at Daytona ... they can run side by side with less than a car width between them without issue, but when they get door handle to door handle, side drafting and aero push/loose occur. In drag racing, the cars never get this close together, or it would be a concern at every track, not just 4 wide.
Virgil, sorry the negativity gets you down. Even the people that piss and moan love the sport ... Just have a funny way of showing it.
Virgil, sorry the negativity gets you down. Even the people that piss and moan love the sport ... Just have a funny way of showing it.
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Robert, I agree with Chris. Note sure there really is an increased safety concern as there is a wall between the two sets of tracks.
Sure a car coming over a wall or a body blowing over could be an issue but with the time it would take for it to cross or drop, any car under power would be past any issue. A car not under power would be behind any action. I assume they double the safari staff during that race, so that would be a non-factor as well.
Sure a car coming over a wall or a body blowing over could be an issue but with the time it would take for it to cross or drop, any car under power would be past any issue. A car not under power would be behind any action. I assume they double the safari staff during that race, so that would be a non-factor as well.
my friends call me Zappy
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Yes, each track has it's own safety safari crew.
robslob
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I hope you all are right and I am wrong...
rckymtn3
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Okay. I see you lifted my thoughts, so I'll reply.
I don't like Sam Adams beer. Am I being negative?
I think it's too heavy, and the aftertaste is at best, something to be acquired. Still negative?
At least I have actually thought about why I don't like it, instead of disliking them because that's the way it is.
Okay.
I think it's great that they purchased an old brick brewery and run their business out of it. That's positive, right?
But it says nothing about their beer, and the fact that I don't like it. So being positive is a position that accomplishes nothing when I'm trying to share my opinion a beer I don't find to my taste.
I think it's great that there's still enough fuel teams to usually fill a 16 car field.
I hope they go to 8 car fields soon.
Less cars is always better.
I prefer the racing, to the spectacle of an event. So yes, I am all for more racingcentric coverage, and wouldn't cry a tear if they ditched all of the things that aren't about the cars and the people that make them go fast. I don't need to know who they married, just tell me about what they did to overcome a certain issue on a track. The interviews you say are interspersed, are pretty-much omnipresent. I am a nerd, so I sat through a show last year, timing each instance of when the cars were televised, split screen interview/cars, and interviews alone, as well as sponsor breaks. The total number of minutes showing actual cars on the track/pits was a little over an hour of a three hour program. That's a bit more than interspersed. It feels like a long highlight show rather than a race. If I were to adopt a positive attitude towards this, wouldn't they see that as me enjoying it, and prompt them to give me even more of the same, and less racing? Perhaps someone out there actually likes a soap opera lifestyles of the rich and famous highlights program. Let them be positive about it. I don't feel so positive. I haven't given up on the Big Show, I still watch it, they get my advertising demo numbers. I am not trying to start a revolution to get all viewers to abandon drag racing en masse. I talk about it because I care about it. I would love to LOVE everything they send down the pipe. I wish they didn't make it so hard to love them.
Negative? Perhaps that's a perception. I see it as an opinion. Is it wrong to like one way over another? Is it wrong to discuss these things in a related posting? Can I help it if everything they "try" seems to be the result of looking towards NASCAR or seeing where the dart hit the board? Neither of which have any resemblance of drag racing competition at their core.
Sometimes, a mistake is what happens when you are trying different, new things. Sometimes it's pure laziness. Do your homework, and your results will be more on target than someone that slept the day away.
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e
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Being there in person (Charlotte) and watching it on TV are two different things. Most of us can't be there in person and for me, I just don't like it on TV !! I really don't know how to say that without sounding a little bit negative (??).................
Terry
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I agree with Eric. As I have mentioned before, I don't like the 4 wide on tv because I just have too much trouble following the action. If a car I was focused on spins the tires, I just can't seem to catch up to follow another car. Not necessarily the fault of 4 wide racing, it may just be the years catching up with my vision and attention span.
Nevertheless, I would like to see a 4 wide race in person to see what it is like. It sounds like quite a spectacle to me. Without the benefit of ever attending one, I kind of think it would be very much like seeing jet cars run..really cool the first time, but not too many thrills on subsequent viewings. But I certainly could be wrong..I might love it and want to go back. No way of knowing without doing it, which I haven't yet, and that being the case, any guesses on my part would be simply that, conjecture as to what it might be like for me in person. I've watched it on tv and don't really enjoy it for the reasons above, but I also have to say any drag racing on tv is better than none, and I watch the 4 wides just like I do all the other races. I'm both a participant and a fan. I've never seen it in person so it would be unfair for me to condemn it without trying it.
But I do think something that radically different and (excuse the term) circus-like might really sell in a market like Las Vegas....
Nevertheless, I would like to see a 4 wide race in person to see what it is like. It sounds like quite a spectacle to me. Without the benefit of ever attending one, I kind of think it would be very much like seeing jet cars run..really cool the first time, but not too many thrills on subsequent viewings. But I certainly could be wrong..I might love it and want to go back. No way of knowing without doing it, which I haven't yet, and that being the case, any guesses on my part would be simply that, conjecture as to what it might be like for me in person. I've watched it on tv and don't really enjoy it for the reasons above, but I also have to say any drag racing on tv is better than none, and I watch the 4 wides just like I do all the other races. I'm both a participant and a fan. I've never seen it in person so it would be unfair for me to condemn it without trying it.
But I do think something that radically different and (excuse the term) circus-like might really sell in a market like Las Vegas....
