Rii (1 Viewer)

[sparky]

In a former post somewhere I had read that someone mentioned the use of an RII {Remote Ignition Interrupter}

I had Spoke to Alan Rinehart {sp sorry } in St.louis Last year about these and his opinion was that the Motors {nitro} would just keep Running {Deiseling } . And in former post or was it Selzi on Wind Tunnel said See what explosion would happen when Ignition was turned back on ,Well if ignition is shut off the driver is the only one who can turn back and and why would he if having problems already.
They could be tested in a Dyno room
Anyways why wouldn't anybody be intersted in testing them?
We use them in all forms of motors in the monster truck industry,from BBF to BBC to BAE, all blown and injected. Most run mags from 12's to 20's.Now we are limited on Cubes and overdrives and really levels the playing feild but thats a different topic all together.
Point being I truly believe this device could save lives,would have like to seen one on the Gal's dragster who perished in Oklahoma
Might have been able to be activated by trained crew member when severe tire shake is seen from starting line ,might have helped Eric
Alot of might's and If's but isn't it worth looking at ?

 

[none]

In a former post somewhere I had read that someone mentioned the use of an RII {Remote Ignition Interrupter}

I
We use them in all forms of motors in the monster truck industry,from BBF to BBC to BAE, all blown and injected. Most run mags from 12's to 20's.Now we are limited on Cubes and overdrives and really levels the playing feild but thats a different topic all together.

BUT...none of those run NITRO !! After a certain point NITRO motors don't need ignition or sparkplugs !! The ONLY way to shut a NITRO motor off is to turn off the NITRO.......no ignition switches on a NITRO car.......

 

[Bross Hawg]

There is an ignition kill on a fuel car. It is an air operated switch usually on or near the steering wheel. It is mandatory. However, I do not know if it will work past a certain point. Usually if you take ignition away, the motor goes BooM! Also, nitro engines burn extremely hot. That is why the motors are so loud, the fuel is still igniting as it comes out of the head. It is much harder to light, also much harder to unlite.

 

[Bross Hawg]

When the driver shuts the engine down after a run or on an aborted run, he almost always shuts the fuel of, not the ignition. That is why you sometimes hear them dieseling in the shut down area and sound funny, popping and whatnot...

 

[Doug in the woods]

Several problems with remote control shut-offs
You need a fuel valve that shuts off, not the ignition. A valve that is electrically controlled for a 2-3 inch fuel line would be very big AND would take a very large solinoid to operate.
ANY receiver is prone to ESD (electro static discharge) thus making it prone to malfunction due to other outside electrical forces (READ the ignition system on a fuel car).
Sure the radios work on the cars but different wave length on the frequency used. Not really approiate for remote control.
THEN you have the possiability that durring a race, a team could tap into the opposing cars receiver and cause a malfunction thus guaranteeing a win.
WHAT a Team cheat!!
YES there is a SANTA Clause
Remote control IMHO is not viable

 

[sparky]

O.k I see your point on the nitro cars but what about alky ranks /promods,What about that car in Oklahoma that did a blowover,how nice would it have been to shut that off remotely ?
Wasn't Von smith car still running through the sand pit ?
I guess once in a million shot of that happening again right ,so why bother, right.

 

[turbo ken]

O.k I see your point on the nitro cars but what about alky ranks /promods,What about that car in Oklahoma that did a blowover,how nice would it have been to shut that off remotely ?
Wasn't Von smith car still running through the sand pit ?
I guess once in a million shot of that happening again right ,so why bother, right.

That was the Shelly Howard that blewover backwards in Tulsa Oklahoma in her A/FD, lost Shelly and her son during that accident.

The main problem is the rules, the only electronics allowed is for data aquisition, and ignition system, it would have to be a mechanical system.

 

[kd]

Several problems with remote control shut-offs
You need a fuel valve that shuts off, not the ignition. A valve that is electrically controlled for a 2-3 inch fuel line would be very big AND would take a very large solinoid to operate.
ANY receiver is prone to ESD (electro static discharge) thus making it prone to malfunction due to other outside electrical forces (READ the ignition system on a fuel car).
Sure the radios work on the cars but different wave length on the frequency used. Not really approiate for remote control.
THEN you have the possiability that durring a race, a team could tap into the opposing cars receiver and cause a malfunction thus guaranteeing a win.
WHAT a Team cheat!!
YES there is a SANTA Clause
Remote control IMHO is not viable

AWESOME POST!!!!
I learned alot. VEEEERY smart guy and well put.!!!
I'm thinkin Jim Epler (nothing implied-Klober-crew chief...) RED lighting EVERYONE he RACED
on Sunday....HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM............
(Houston or....) ISNT Jimmy a "computer design guy!!! ?

 

[kd]

BUT...none of those run NITRO !! After a certain point NITRO motors don't need ignition or sparkplugs !! The ONLY way to shut a NITRO motor off is to turn off the NITRO.......no ignition switches on a NITRO car.......

RIGHT ON BRO!!!!!!!

Have personally seen 2 MAGNETOS being driven over by the very car that "spit" them out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sparky]

So now head crew cheifs are talking about having in car that shuts off mag and fuel pumps ,interesting considering Seems everyone here on this thread says it won't work ....
Guess well wait and see ...

 

[Bross Hawg]

So now head crew cheifs are talking about having in car that shuts off mag and fuel pumps ,interesting considering Seems everyone here on this thread says it won't work ....
Guess well wait and see ...

Man, a bit touchy, are we? Key words being "ignition" AND "fuel". Not one or the other. But what do I know...?

 

[Bross Hawg]

On a fuel motor at WFO, the fuel pumps are supplying between 90 and 100 gpm. Think about that for a second. You could damn near fill 2 55 gallon drums in 1 min. That is a lot of fuel going into each cylinder. The mags supply around 50,000 volts @ 55 amps of current, each. That is what it takes to light that fuel mixture. Take the spark away, motor hydrolocks, goes boom big time, and you have a very bad situation on your hands. Fuel and spark at the same time, not as bad.

 

[Thrill]

Kurt, your intentions are genuine, but the reality is remote switches just won't work on nitro cars. Killing the ignition is very effective on a gas or alky motor, but not very effective on a nitro motor at wide open throttle. I've been an advocate of a kill switch to kill the cars with fuel, but ignition will not work. When I was crew chiefing Jason Cannon's AFD we shook both mags off the car one time and the shake was so bad the throttle hung wide open. The racepak picks up rpm off ignition. When it shook the mags off, the engine rpm showed zero, but the driveshaft rpm kept accellerating for another second or more until Jason reached up and hit the fuel shutoff. Nitro will continue to run quite well w/o ignition. Most fuel cars burn the electrode completely off by half track and are dieseling from then on.

I've had ideas for inline fuel shutoffs and potentially an air solenoid much like they use for throttle stops to be connected to another fuel shutoff plumbed behind the existing fuel shutoffs. This could be activated by the driver or a number of different activation methods, but that's a whole other topic.

The other problem is the remote activation of such a switch. It's very problematic to say the least. I'm not an electrical kind of guy, but there has got to be some stupid levels of interference put off by two 44 amp mags. So thats one problem, two is who is going to activate it. What are the guidelines to shut off something. Most crew chiefs and crew guys are going to be very reluctant to hit such a switch, and by the time that finally happens, most of the damage may be done.

I asked Frank Hawley why he doesn't have such a switch on his school cars. He said he didn't want to take the responsibility away from the driver. He didn't want drivers riding the car out knowing he'll hit the switch if it gets too bad.

 

[Toejam]

When the driver shuts the engine down after a run or on an aborted run, he almost always shuts the fuel of, not the ignition. That is why you sometimes hear them dieseling in the shut down area and sound funny, popping and whatnot...

Anyone remember Flash Gordon Mineo's car re-igniting at the turn off at some track! His car plowed into Eddie Hill's tow van!

 

[Spanky]

absolutely have to agree with will... when you start talking high nitro percentages it becomes a whole different situation. and to the outside observer... it seems like any other engine. but trust me... once you've had one of these things on fire in your face and still trying to 'stay alive' you realize what a time bomb you are dealing with... like i said in another thread on here... these aren't cute little nascar motors that you can just 'turn off'... it's not that straight forward

and i'm not saying there isn't a way to come up with some kind of 'kill' or 'safety' switch... but it's not as simple as 'on and off'

 

[Bob]

Kurt, your intentions are genuine, but the reality is remote switches just won't work on nitro cars. Killing the ignition is very effective on a gas or alky motor, but not very effective on a nitro motor at wide open throttle. I've been an advocate of a kill switch to kill the cars with fuel, but ignition will not work. When I was crew chiefing Jason Cannon's AFD we shook both mags off the car one time and the shake was so bad the throttle hung wide open. The racepak picks up rpm off ignition. When it shook the mags off, the engine rpm showed zero, but the driveshaft rpm kept accellerating for another second or more until Jason reached up and hit the fuel shutoff. Nitro will continue to run quite well w/o ignition. Most fuel cars burn the electrode completely off by half track and are dieseling from then on.

Hi Will, I've posed the following question several times when this topic has been brought up in the past, and so far, it tends to kill the thread and I haven't received any answers. If compression ignition is not only possible but is as common as you indicate, how is it that dropped cylinders on nitro cars can happen without pushed gaskets? As to all of the electrodes being burned off by half track, I know of a senior National Dragster photographer who was commissioned by Champion to photograph the actual 16 plugs from a fuel car after winning a national event a few years ago, so Champion could use the photos for advertising purposes. All 16 plugs were complete - no burned electrodes

I've had ideas for inline fuel shutoffs and potentially an air solenoid much like they use for throttle stops to be connected to another fuel shutoff plumbed behind the existing fuel shutoffs. This could be activated by the driver or a number of different activation methods, but that's a whole other topic.

The other problem is the remote activation of such a switch. It's very problematic to say the least. I'm not an electrical kind of guy, but there has got to be some stupid levels of interference put off by two 44 amp mags. So thats one problem, two is who is going to activate it. What are the guidelines to shut off something. Most crew chiefs and crew guys are going to be very reluctant to hit such a switch, and by the time that finally happens, most of the damage may be done.

I asked Frank Hawley why he doesn't have such a switch on his school cars. He said he didn't want to take the responsibility away from the driver. He didn't want drivers riding the car out knowing he'll hit the switch if it gets too bad.

Perhaps you missed this link in an earlier thread. Drag Racing Internet Magazine - Competition Plus.com - NHRA AGGRESSIVELY PURSUING SAFETY
The top tuners are already looking at a 3-way switch that would kill fuel, spark and release the chute all at once.