NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events? (2 Viewers)

[clwill]

We had a good day yesterday at the Seattle national event, despite NHRA's best effort to make it miserable. For some unknown reason, NHRA created a ridiculous run order, and it made a number of us in the sportsman pits wonder if NHRA really wants us there at all.

Normally, a national event Saturday would be filled with a morning of round one's walking through all the sportsman classes, and maybe round two of a large class or two. Then at noon or so, you segue into TAD/FC, PS, and FC/TF, and repeat the alcohol and pros. Finally the day is finished off with a round or two of all the sportsman classes. That leaves the remaining few rounds as filler for the Sunday show.

This arrangement has a lot of advantages, not the least of which is it gives the sportsman racers a reasonable turnaround. Because, even in the worst case, you have a half-dozen other classes to run before you have to get back in the staging lanes. From the spectator point of view, those that watch see a full range of cars.

But some rocket-scientist at NHRA decided to shake things up. So this morning we had three hot-lap rounds for S/ST, ST, and a couple other classes. So fully 2/3rds of those people were done by noon. And the winners spent the morning scrambling to make the next call.

And NHRA put Super Gas and Super Comp off to the end of the day, hot-lapping three rounds. So we spent the whole day waiting for our shot (got there at 7:30am, ran round one at 6:15pm). And then we had perhaps 10 minutes to get back for round 2 after our round 1 win.

NHRA didn't have a ladder that fast, so 35 cars spent 15 minutes mangled up on the pit road trying to find their matchup, decide lane choice, and get into the lanes. The whole time Reinhart is complaining over the PA "Super Comp, where are you, if you're not in the lanes, you're late", while we're all 20 feet away trying to get in the dang lanes, but can't because the whole thing is a big cluster. Then they made round 2 winners just drive back into the lanes, with no stop at the pits to cool down, refuel, check data, or anything.

All because some clown at NHRA decided to mess with a sane formula. No one in an NHRA uniform could give any reason for the ridiculous order, and they all thought it was pretty stupid too. And it made many of us wonder why we were there in the first place... Does NHRA really want us there at all?

 

[Ross]

As a spectator I thought the run order made no sense. 3 rounds of S/ST and Stock in the morning gave no time for cooldown etc, I bet the Stock contingent was unhappy they had a very short turnaround.
I was waiting for 1st round of S/G and S/C to watch some friends run, had to wait until after 5PM, then left and missed 2nd round.
Glad I was not participating in S/ST this weekend.

 

[mick]

the question is, especially at a nat. event with no title rights sponsor, can
nhra afford to run a nat. event without all the sportsmen's entry fees?

 

[You!]

The real question you must ask yourself and your neighbors in the pits is, "Assuming they (NHRA) set up the same run schedule as they did this weekend at the next event, would you still enter?"

If you answer that honestly, that's what NHRA is betting on. You'll just keep taking it because you have no choice. This situation is not a new one, it just may be the first time you've had to go through it. I gave up in 1992 for these same reasons you described.

 

[none]

Christopher,

If you have the time, please come up to the tower and see me during pre race. Anytime between 10:00 and 10:45 I went by your trailer (the one in your avitar) and it was still locked up.

Alan

 

[Jenn]

I kinda liked running right after another, actually. It's closer to what you'd run in a race day condition, round robin, get your stuff done and get back to the lanes.

The only downside that I saw in Denver is that when ran half the first round SC field and then stopped us to run the pros, was that some SC cars had some low tire pressure, but thankfully, I had a full air tank to lend out.

 

[Crash]

I don't think that they don't want us there, I think they could not care less one way or the other. We (I say we even though I have not raced in 3 years) are filler, necessary evil, minor source of revenue, etc. etc. Nothing more.
People keep going back like an abused dog, because we don't have an option if we want to run a national event. If we all quit going to National events (or run out of money, like me) NHRA wouldn't care. If we keep going, NHRA won't care. WE DON'T PUT PEOPLE (read; paying spectators) IN THE SEATS and never will. We are expendable.

 

[clwill]

Christopher,

If you have the time, please come up to the tower and see me during pre race. Anytime between 10:00 and 10:45 I went by your trailer (the one in your avitar) and it was still locked up.

Alan

Alan, didn't see this before, headed straight to the race. Only home just now. I'll PM my cell and you can call anytime.

Chris

 

[clwill]

The real question you must ask yourself and your neighbors in the pits is, "Assuming they (NHRA) set up the same run schedule as they did this weekend at the next event, would you still enter?"

If you answer that honestly, that's what NHRA is betting on. You'll just keep taking it because you have no choice. This situation is not a new one, it just may be the first time you've had to go through it. I gave up in 1992 for these same reasons you described.

Actually, if they'd tell everyone this run order at the beginning of the weekend, I might. At least I'd know what to expect.

But the way it was, I had all kinds of people on the road to the track when I heard we weren't running until 5:00. I called them all and said "just fooling, come back later." Of course most of them came anyway, then tired out long before we ran, and left. Great...

Look, I'm more than happy to get hot lapped if I get in the 4th, 5th, 6th round. It's not really hard to find your opponent, and figure out what's going on. There are less than 10 of you there, much less of a cluster. And by that point you're running on adrenaline. But round two with dozens of cars?? Silly.

 

[none]

Christopher,
If you have the time, please come up to the tower and see me during pre race. Anytime between 10:00 and 10:45 I went by your trailer (the one in your avitar) and it was still locked up.
Alan

WHAT IS ALAN HIDING ???
WHY CAN'T HE TELL ALL OF US ???

 

[ex-nsp]

Excuse me, but Super Category racers fully understand the frantic state of getting lapped in late rounds -IT GOES WITH THE TERRITORY and they deal with it. If you haven't been there you won't understand that part of the excitement!

Great job, Reinhardt, as usual, but NEVER forget my Vin Scully suggestions re: your late round delivery. REEEELAXXXX!

 

[Jenn]

Actually, if they'd tell everyone this run order at the beginning of the weekend, I might. At least I'd know what to expect.

But the way it was, I had all kinds of people on the road to the track when I heard we weren't running until 5:00. I called them all and said "just fooling, come back later." Of course most of them came anyway, then tired out long before we ran, and left. Great...

Look, I'm more than happy to get hot lapped if I get in the 4th, 5th, 6th round. It's not really hard to find your opponent, and figure out what's going on. There are less than 10 of you there, much less of a cluster. And by that point you're running on adrenaline. But round two with dozens of cars?? Silly.

The run order for Denver was posted at the tech trailer. We knew our run orders pretty much from Thursday. Granted, SC got a little whacky with the rain issues...but the run order is out there.

 

[clwill]

The run order for Denver was posted at the tech trailer. We knew our run orders pretty much from Thursday. Granted, SC got a little whacky with the rain issues...but the run order is out there.

Wasn't. We checked. We asked. We got "it might be..., but I don't know". They told people late Friday after we had left (remember we got two hits Friday am, then nothing).

 

[clwill]

Mr. Reinhart just graciously called and we had a good conversation on this topic. He was able to articulate the rationale for this changed run order, something no one I found could do.

He explained that the new order doesn't have a whole pile of people with Round 1 in the am and Round 2 in the evening, meaning they have to sit at the track all day. The new order gives half the folks the ability to come early & leave early, and the other people the chance to sleep in and stay late. OK, I buy that.

But as I explained to Alan, I really have two issues: 1) trying to hot-lap dozens of cars with insufficient space/time/info to make it work smoothly, and 2) a whole bunch of people (racers, people in NHRA uniforms, fans, friends, etc.) who weren't clear what was going on.

The issue with getting it done smoothly is exacerbated by Seattle's pit/staging lane arrangement. He said it worked great in Denver, but not so well in the narrow confines of Pacific Raceways. Nonetheless, I'd like more info. Maybe if immediately after Round 1 they sent out a guy on a scooter with the pairings to the pits, at least you'd know who to look for... Before you roll up. Just an idea. More info is always better.

The second issue of not knowing what's really going on is the big issue. Sometimes it seems that if you don't stay at the track, you're completely out of the loop. I suggested to Alan that there's this cool thing called "the internet", and that the event schedule on NHRA.com is lame. It says simply "Sportsman Eliminations" on Saturday. And on Sunday it's even worse...

I suggest to NHRA, if you KNOW the run order, post it. How about "Sportsman Eliminations, Run Order: ...". No, the times don't have to be perfect, just some guidelines. The run order I finally did see said S/C Round 1 at 5:00 and we ran at 6:15 -- who cares, we all know it's just a SWAG. But at least to know the order would help.

Using the internet would let us be able to tell friends to look there for the schedule, and show up accordingly ("just show up for the 3:00 pro session and stay for us"). And we would have planned our day better, and known what's going on.

So really, to quote the late Strother Martin from Cool Hand Luke: what we got here... is failure to communicate. NHRA has all the cards, they know what's going on. We don't. Find a better way to tell us all.

Thanks again Alan, enjoy your ride.
Chris

 

[none]

Chris,

The ride was awesome! Thanks for the good thoughts. And thanks for the conversation the other day. I think you are correct, we (NHRA) could do a better job of getting the word out. But as for the run order it's pretty much like you said.

There have been a number of racers that have asked "Why do we have to be here at 8 AM to run first round, and then sit around all day to run second round at 6 PM?" So the schedule was changed, (at least on the west coast) so that the racers can run the rounds that they need to run without a huge delay. And because most of the double class racers run S/G and S/C or STK and SS that's the way they are split.

In Seattle, Saturday Am we ran S/ST STK and SS so those racers were done for the day. If they had a need to go shopping, or wanted to watch the Pro's run they could. The S/G and S/C racers didn't run until after the second round of the Pro's so if someone (like Chris) who was racing at home wanted to, they could sleep in or play golf or whatever they wanted to do, then come to the track at 4 PM, unload and be ready to race. But they didn't give up the whole day!

While some sportsman racers are fans, many don't really follow much outside of their class. If you ever watch the viewing areas near the starting line, you will see that after each class concludes, the people change. There are people keeping track of all the stock runs, and there are people keeping track of all the Super Comp speeds. But they are not many that watch all the classes. The Seattle schedule gives many at least half a day off.

And I want to say to Chris and others that were listening, that I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh on the P.A. At most tracks I look out the back window and see the cars getting paired up and I know that they are coming up to race. At Seattle I didn't know they were all on the road course, so I was a little vocal about nobody being in the lanes. Please accept my apology.

We start again at 8 AM tomorrow, and I can't wait!

Alan

 

[clwill]

I would like to thank Alan and the NHRA for listening to this (admittedly over-the-top) rant of mine. If you look at the Brainerd schedule here, down at the bottom is a link to a "detailed run schedule", a complete PDF schedule for the event.

Perfect, wonderful, thank you.

 

[none]

See Chris,

Sometimes all you have to do is ask..............Or RANT!!!

LOL

Alan

 

[PJ]

Holy Crap...maybe Alan really does have connections

 

[Curt]

Ok Alan. Now I like the sound of this. I do worry that if we dont come to the track till 4pm because it says 6pm 1st round. then we get moved to 2-3pm and miss the round. its tough enough to sit out a full weekend of rain (ie. Pomona). thats aprt of the game. but we need assurence that if a round is set at X time that its not going to move up... ?????

See Chris,

Sometimes all you have to do is ask..............Or RANT!!!

LOL

Alan

 

[clwill]

Ok Alan. Now I like the sound of this. I do worry that if we dont come to the track till 4pm because it says 6pm 1st round. then we get moved to 2-3pm and miss the round. its tough enough to sit out a full weekend of rain (ie. Pomona). thats aprt of the game. but we need assurence that if a round is set at X time that its not going to move up... ?????

I think you make a good point, but that's another good thing about publicizing the schedule like this. The more they make it public, the less they can get away with changing it. If so, there'd be you and several dozen others who would have very legitimate reasons to protest.