New Chinese Made Aluminum Blamed for Engine Failures (1 Viewer)

[Nick Name]

No, it seems the Chinese aluminum is all that is available to manufacturers. That is the thrust of the quoted article.

Not true. And before I responded to this, I called our aluminum supplier to verify that domestic aluminum is still available.

Seems one of the issues is that domestic mills are backlogged with lead times pushed way out there.

Distributors are using import to fill gaps in inventory.

 

[Paul]

If you go on one of the serious machining forums you'll see many posts regarding the poor machinability of chinese and russian aluminum alloys. The generally accepted practice is to not accept import aluminum for any critical parts.

Any metal supplier worth a poop will also supply a "cert" sheet with a metal order, this specifies the place of origin and the tested properties of the material.

So the connecting rod manufactures should definitely know what they are getting. If its true that domestic aluminum is in short supply I guess they chose to ship sub-standard parts rather than putting parts on back order.

 

[Nick Name]

If it is a serious rod manufacturer, then he should be able to forecast material needs and not get caught short.

I know that on the steel rod side, Carrillo has a mill run of their propriety material and forgings done for the entire year up front.

 

[Walter]

So let me see if I have this right. Companies have made the choice to buy cheaper, less well made materials for critical engine components. They could buy better quality materials from numerous US companies, but choose to buy cheap. And their customers, looking only at the bottom line choose to purchase the cheapest component without regard to quality.

Yet the fault for those bad choices and the resulting failures is not the companies that made those choices, but rather somehow it is a political choice and the fault for this lies with the government.

Wow.

Good point...but you forgot to add that any perceived problem had to start within the last four years and never took place prior thereto...

 

[willy]

Just an observation (I'm conflicted by an open trade philosophy and knowing that cheap ain't - in the long run - always that cheap:

The I-Pad is made in China. It ain't cheap - I guess it's a good prodiuct - I wonder how much it would cost if it was, at least, assembled in the USA.

There are lot's of reasons manufacturing has gone off-shore (not the least of which is union work-rule inflexibility in many industries) but, I'd like to see WalMart retuurn to the old days when they championed "Made in America". If they (or Target or Searcs or whoever) could market a USA Quality branding, it just might work. The question is: would the quality be there and how much of a premium would folks have (or be willing) to pay?

When Apple originally came up with the iPhone/iPad scenario, they had plans to build a factory here that would employ 20,000 people. They reasoned they would need 6,000 engineers to accomplish this. Their study revealed it would take 9 months to hire that many from here. It took 15 days in China.

 

[Von Halen]

Fully agree Mike. It's kind of silly how often some people have to be reminded of some very old truths: "you get what you pay for", and its corollary "there's no such thing as a free lunch". That part is cheaper for a reason, and it's not often that the reason is magical -- someone didn't just happen to figure out a way to make two identical things cost 25% different. They are not the same.

If this is true, then why do American cars have the rap about being inferior to foreign cars? Our cars are more expensive than many of the foreign cars that are continually rated as superior to ours. According to some, just because it is "Made In America", doesn't guarantee it to be the best.

There isn't a 25% difference in cost to items just because of the manufacturing process itself, as you are insinuating. An identical part of the same quality as ourscould be made in China, for 25% less, for more reasons than just the process. We all know some of those reasons, as they have been stated above.

It is up to the consumer to do their homework. If I am restoring a muscle car, you can damn sure bet I am going to compare the parts I am buying, to see if the difference in cost is worth it. No matter where it came from. Yes, I know Generic Motors is using foreign steel, so I am not going to pay $600 more for their part, just because it has their name stamped on it. I will pay $600 more for it, if I have done my research and deem it to be worth $600 more.

Unless of course I am restoring the car to flip it, and make as much money as I can. But that is a whole other conversation...

 

[Doolie]

When Apple originally came up with the iPhone/iPad scenario, they had plans to build a factory here that would employ 20,000 people. They reasoned they would need 6,000 engineers to accomplish this. Their study revealed it would take 9 months to hire that many from here. It took 15 days in China.

I have worked alongside Chinese and Indian so called engineers. Yes they are plentiful. They are also worthless.

 

[Racer7828]

Here are a few facts for you to consider...

1) USA made aluminum is readily available. It is more expensive, but so is everything else related to manufacturing; e.g.: labor, rent, insurance, etc.

2) Every connecting rod we forge, whether it is made of 7075, 7178, C555 or C405, is from USA metal. The same is true for every piston we forge, as well as every other part we make.

3) I cannot vouch for every forge plant, or plate rod manufacturer, but I can tell you that the following companies buy their connecting rod forgings from us and they have nothing but USA aluminum for the base material: Venolia Pistons, Alan Johnson Performance Engineering, Howard's Rods, C.P. Pistons, and Don Shumacher Racing. Shop wisely...

Wayne Ramay - Performance Forge, Inc.

 

[HEMI6point1]

Just an observation (I'm conflicted by an open trade philosophy and knowing that cheap ain't - in the long run - always that cheap:

The I-Pad is made in China. It ain't cheap - I guess it's a good prodiuct - I wonder how much it would cost if it was, at least, assembled in the USA.

Not trying to derail this thread, but it's because Apple has execs on the grounds in China monitoring the QC that comes out of the factories.

Apple has stated that they would like the build a factory here, but the labor boards here would not let them have the work schedule that they would want. Translation: They wouldn't be able to force people to work like, well, slaves....

 

[JCHansen]

Thanks Wayne, for setting us straight as to who sells Top-of-the-Line USA made alum rods and pistons made with USA aluminum.
WOW, Alan Johnson and DSR, you know those teams want the Best.

Jon

 

[Doolie]

A friend had a product made in China many years ago. He told me the secret to getting good quality was in not trying to break the price they gave you. If you did, you would get garbage.
The metal may well be very different from a simple manufactured product.
I do not trust Chinese imported food products. I would not trust Chinese metal.

 

[nick name]

It drives me nuts when people introduce politics into a topic that they don't belong in. But in this case, I'm going to do it but not because I want to cheerlead for one party or another.

In the 80s I worked for a division of Anheuser Busch that made beverage cans. The beginning of the process was a large coil (roll) of sheet aluminum that was about 5 feet in diameter and weighed 10000 to 15000 pounds depending on its length.

Before I left in the early 90s, almost all of the coils were coming from Taiwan. Consider that they did not have the natural resources for making aluminum. The ore was shipped in and the finished coil was shipped thousands of miles to the plant I worked in.

According to the supervisors I spoke with, the cost was over 30% less than the coils manufactured in Alcoa, Tennessee which was about 400 miles away.

Though part of the difference was in labor costs, most of it was because the Taiwanese government was subsidizing the price which made it that much lower than what a US product could be sold for.

After quite a few changes to the mill process, the stuff finally would run as well as the US product.

So, on one hand we have a country committed to companies and workers making money, and on the other one in which government intervention is increasingly looked upon as something evil.

Again, not making any points as to the status quo here but simply pointing out that there are other issues involved.

 

[mike]

So, on one hand we have a country committed to companies and workers making money, and on the other one in which government intervention is increasingly looked upon as something evil.

Again, not making any points as to the status quo here but simply pointing out that there are other issues involved.

I think the difference is that in this country government intervention usually means stifling or penilizing business not helping it...

 

[nick name]

I think the difference is that in this country government intervention usually means stifling or penilizing business not helping it...

Good point. I was going to mention that our government would probably get everything screwed up but had already written too much to start with.

I'm thinking that the Taiwanese companies didn't get the subsidies because of huge campaign contributions or boardroom friendships but rather because it would make for a stronger industry that could keep more people working and paying taxes.

But now I've really gone off on a political deal. Sorry.

 

[mw6789]

i think the difference is that in this country government intervention usually means stifling or penilizing business not helping it...

amen brother!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jeff]

Dale, maybe it wasn't the pronunciation of your words that were giving her a hard time. It could have related more to thought process, random scenario association, and sentence structure. Since, I'm from the southern U.S., you may need to read this twice.