Nitromater
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
NASCAR's most powerful teams form Race Team Alliance. IMAGINE IF!
- Thread starter JF
- Start date
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
F1 teams have tried this for years and have always failed. In fact, the most recent iteration, FOTA, was dissolved at the beginning of this season after 6 years of accomplishing nothing. CART started as an organization of teams when USAC sanctioned open wheel racing, CART eventually got all the power and with an assist from Tony George, completely laid waste to open wheel racing from which it shows no sign of recovery. PRO is ostensibly the same thing as the NASCAR teams have, and PRO is a toothless, impotent organization that has little affect on Drag Racing. This NASCAR team owners organization has garnered some headlines, but history says it will accomplish nothing or they will completely destroy their sport from within.
SundayNiagara
Nitro Member
Au contraire, Tony George and CART were opposites.
What would a flag burner like you know about anything?
Jimbo
Nitro Member
Is that the same group that Hummy Wheeler started that also includes race tracks?
Jimbo
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com
Jimbo
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com
The Swegian
Nitro Member
I'm reasonably certain that's what Chris is saying in his post.
I could just be naive ... however I have read several articles and heard several team owners (RTA) interviewed in the last few days. As I understand the RTA, they are simply taking matters into their own hands and attempting to leverage their power by focusing on things like cost reduction to themselves, ways their businesses can be more effective, and better environments for the 1,000's of employees each team has overall. Things they do not necessaily need the sanctioning body to get done.
The new chairman stated that this was not a union and their intent is not focus on improving / changing NASCAR. It was about improving their businesses. He talked about pooling their resources as teams to ...
- Provide better benefits (healthcare) to all their employees instead of independant plans
- Leverage buying power for parts and equipment
- Leverage buying power with hotel chains to save $$ on all the rooms these teams consume on a weekly basis.
That's how I think this is drastically different from PRO.
JF
Nitro Member
That may be true FOR NOW! Once they see their power.... IMAGINE the possibilities!
JF
Nitro Member
Drag Racing Version:
"NHRA will begin paying ESPN TV. Under the current structure, NHRA teams receive roughly 0% of the revenue from TV, with 0% to tracks and 0% to NHRA."
Yeah, and NHRA owns about 1/3 the tracks, with Bruton Smith owning about 1/3, so NHRA really gets about 0%, Bruton gets about 0%, and the guys that actually put on the show get about 0%. I bet NHRA is extremely happy about this development.
YOU CAN"T FIX STUPID
"NHRA will begin paying ESPN TV. Under the current structure, NHRA teams receive roughly 0% of the revenue from TV, with 0% to tracks and 0% to NHRA."
Yeah, and NHRA owns about 1/3 the tracks, with Bruton Smith owning about 1/3, so NHRA really gets about 0%, Bruton gets about 0%, and the guys that actually put on the show get about 0%. I bet NHRA is extremely happy about this development.
YOU CAN"T FIX STUPID
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Right, once CART sanctioning power over open wheel racing they thought they were the cat's pajamas. Problem was, there was already a petulent, spoiled rich coke-head in Indy that thought he was the cat's pajamas. And it was scorched Earth from that moment forward, and they have reaped what they have sewn ever since. Hence my statement, CART with an assist from Tony George.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Well, if you PAY to be on TV it is an expense. Hence, there is no TV revenue to share. NHRA has always paid ESPN, so this is not a recent development. I don't get where anyone was expecting to get TV revenues as there have never been any??
Where does the ad money go that airs during telecast. I wouldn't expect it to match what they pay out though, so it still would lead to revenues, just less loss
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
I would imagine it goes back to NHRA, as it should. They footed the bill in the first place. I doubt they get even close to breaking even, indeed it is written off as a big loss every year on their Tax Returns posted to DRO.
Dave
Nitro Member
I think that was directed to show the opposite of the current NASCAR situation. In their situation...
Next season, NASCAR will begin a new 10-year TV deal with Fox and NBC worth a reported $8.2 billion. Currently, NASCAR teams receive roughly 25 percent of the TV revenue, tracks received 65 percent and 10 percent goes to NASCAR. With lower attendance at many races in recent years, the TV money has provided the bulk of tracks’ revenue stream.
So that's a lot of money, and you know the funny thing about nascar? The same family owns NASCAR and ISC which owns 52% of the race dates on tour. So in reality, a whole hell of a lot more is going into the France families pocket. Ol Bruton gets a good cut of the tv money too as he has quite a few tracks in NASCAR land. Only Dover, Pocono, and Indianapolis are not owned by ISC or Speedway Motorsports.
The teams basically know sponsor money is harder and harder to get and expenses are through the roof, even ticket sales are down, but this tv revenue deal is a biggie.
That's why you can't even really mention NASCAR and NHRA in the same breath, the money difference is amazing.
T.Smith
Nitro Member
From Humpy Wheeler's Facebook....
The announcement by the major car owners' to form an "Alliance" could have far reaching effects on stock car racing.
Not since 1969 when the Professional Drivers Association was formed which led to a boycott of the first race at Talladega has a group been formed within NASCAR to represent drivers or car owners.
This group -- which includes the most powerful car owners and includes
Rick Hendrick, Joe Gibbs, Richard Childress and the rest of the major owners -- could become extremely powerful and a force to be reckoned with.
Why a move like this now?
I suspect -- hmmmm -- it is all about money and a more powerful voice within the sport. When Rick Hendrick brings up an issue that is one thing but when he does with, say, Joe Gibbs, Childress and other powerful car owners by his side then that creates a formidable reason that could result in major changes within the sport.
The money issue is something to look at. Costs have soared for the team with the addition of all types of engineers because of the technical sophistication of suspensions, engines, aerodynamics, etc.
Cars are going so fast now the drivers are barely able to hold on to them on the mile and a half and two mile tracks.
And when you go fast it costs a lot of money.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
You could literally cut fifty per cent of the cost of the car out by
mandating cheaper components. Shocks now cost $5000 apiece. The Monroe shocks that Bill Elliot first ran 200 mph at Talladega is still around
except you can buy it now for $65 instead of $85 and you eliminate the
shock engineer.
There are so many other things that can be done to reduce costs and at the same time make the racing better.
With the extremely added expense car owners have today coupled with
demolishing three or four cars per season most of them cannot
reduce the whopping' cost of $300,000 or more per race.
So many have to have three sponsors which confuses the public at race
time because their favorite driver has a different color scheme almost ever week.
So your a car owner of first rank. You have to pay your big time driver
a salary of as high as $3-5 million (yep, there are a couple higher); 30-40 assorted craftsmen and then a super jock pit crew on raceway. Transport the truck; fly everyone out to California and you suddenly realize the expense. Oh yes , your are saying where are the engineers. They are coming about five strong!
So where does the income come from? Sponsors and prize money.
So, you need a $8-10 million dollar sponsor to just break even.
So, the prize money is where your profit is but your driver gets 40-50% of that!
So, you hope at the end of the year the point monies will help but when you count your profits it is tough to make any.
So you need more money and the easiest thing to tap is the purse with
the tracks getting all that new and vastly increased tv revenue.
NASCAR pushes the tracks for purse increases but it is a hard fight as tracks are seeing terrible revenue losses because of the vast empty seats like we saw in Kentucky recently.
This is a milestone move…maybe potentially one that could change the
face of racing as we know it. Hopefully it will be for the better.
One great thing the sport has going for it is that we have an outstanding group of car owners; highly component men who are dedicated to the sport but as a group could fight for and mandate big changes.
Stay tuned for this one….
The announcement by the major car owners' to form an "Alliance" could have far reaching effects on stock car racing.
Not since 1969 when the Professional Drivers Association was formed which led to a boycott of the first race at Talladega has a group been formed within NASCAR to represent drivers or car owners.
This group -- which includes the most powerful car owners and includes
Rick Hendrick, Joe Gibbs, Richard Childress and the rest of the major owners -- could become extremely powerful and a force to be reckoned with.
Why a move like this now?
I suspect -- hmmmm -- it is all about money and a more powerful voice within the sport. When Rick Hendrick brings up an issue that is one thing but when he does with, say, Joe Gibbs, Childress and other powerful car owners by his side then that creates a formidable reason that could result in major changes within the sport.
The money issue is something to look at. Costs have soared for the team with the addition of all types of engineers because of the technical sophistication of suspensions, engines, aerodynamics, etc.
Cars are going so fast now the drivers are barely able to hold on to them on the mile and a half and two mile tracks.
And when you go fast it costs a lot of money.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
You could literally cut fifty per cent of the cost of the car out by
mandating cheaper components. Shocks now cost $5000 apiece. The Monroe shocks that Bill Elliot first ran 200 mph at Talladega is still around
except you can buy it now for $65 instead of $85 and you eliminate the
shock engineer.
There are so many other things that can be done to reduce costs and at the same time make the racing better.
With the extremely added expense car owners have today coupled with
demolishing three or four cars per season most of them cannot
reduce the whopping' cost of $300,000 or more per race.
So many have to have three sponsors which confuses the public at race
time because their favorite driver has a different color scheme almost ever week.
So your a car owner of first rank. You have to pay your big time driver
a salary of as high as $3-5 million (yep, there are a couple higher); 30-40 assorted craftsmen and then a super jock pit crew on raceway. Transport the truck; fly everyone out to California and you suddenly realize the expense. Oh yes , your are saying where are the engineers. They are coming about five strong!
So where does the income come from? Sponsors and prize money.
So, you need a $8-10 million dollar sponsor to just break even.
So, the prize money is where your profit is but your driver gets 40-50% of that!
So, you hope at the end of the year the point monies will help but when you count your profits it is tough to make any.
So you need more money and the easiest thing to tap is the purse with
the tracks getting all that new and vastly increased tv revenue.
NASCAR pushes the tracks for purse increases but it is a hard fight as tracks are seeing terrible revenue losses because of the vast empty seats like we saw in Kentucky recently.
This is a milestone move…maybe potentially one that could change the
face of racing as we know it. Hopefully it will be for the better.
One great thing the sport has going for it is that we have an outstanding group of car owners; highly component men who are dedicated to the sport but as a group could fight for and mandate big changes.
Stay tuned for this one….
Dave
Nitro Member
Great points but it's a catch 22. You don't think Rick Hendrick and Richard Childress and the GM boys weren't tired of getting their ass handed to them by that red #9 on all the superspeedway races? That's when monroe shocks started to transition to specially purpose built 5,000 dollar shocks. The car owners are in a money game to outspend the other guys for that .01 quicker lap time, but now they're all banding together going, well shoot, we ain't got no money! Really? It's part of the evolution. How do you solve it? Create a super tight box of rules for everyone to compete in and take the engineers out of the equation? I doubt it. The tighter the box, the MORE they look for that last little detail. Stupid shit too that nobody thinks of. Dale Jr's Daytona 500 winning car had 11 coats of clear coat over the decals. 11 coats! Just to make it as smooth and aerodynamic as possible. You either have a spec series with no advantage, or you open the rulebook wide open aside from safety and let them have at it. Either way you go about it someone is going to sink a ton of money into it. Look at NHRA. Spend 2+ million to win 500,000. How does anyone even begin to enter to compete with these guys?
They aren't looking to cut costs though, they are looking for a bigger piece of the pie.
Oh and uh.. then there's this...
http://racingnomics.com/on-value-in-nascar/
I conclude that the overall value of teams has declined by almost 40% since 2006 and has yet to flatten. After years of consolidation and uneven growth, fewer teams are fighting over a shrinking value in NASCAR.
(side note, this guy also did an in depth article on NASCAR's tv ratings dating back to the late 90's and NASCAR's legal team had it taken down. Damage control?)
You can see who the 9 mega teams are in NASCAR and how they got to be that way from the little chart in the article. Now not only are you spending money like crazy, your team value is dropping.
It's really Wall Street on Wheels, the actual race is a sideshow for fans, the almighty dollar is the real driving force.
They aren't looking to cut costs though, they are looking for a bigger piece of the pie.
Oh and uh.. then there's this...
http://racingnomics.com/on-value-in-nascar/
I conclude that the overall value of teams has declined by almost 40% since 2006 and has yet to flatten. After years of consolidation and uneven growth, fewer teams are fighting over a shrinking value in NASCAR.
(side note, this guy also did an in depth article on NASCAR's tv ratings dating back to the late 90's and NASCAR's legal team had it taken down. Damage control?)
You can see who the 9 mega teams are in NASCAR and how they got to be that way from the little chart in the article. Now not only are you spending money like crazy, your team value is dropping.
It's really Wall Street on Wheels, the actual race is a sideshow for fans, the almighty dollar is the real driving force.
Last edited:
