onfire
Nitro Member
Nitromater
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Jim Head interview.
- Thread starter The Counterfeiter
- Start date
Alan
Nitro Member
I'm not talking about a 6" drop, but maybe a half inch or so to ensure that the car doesn't launch into the air. A car is not going to nosedive because the sand sits slightly below the asphalt surface.
clwill
Nitro Member
Except crew chiefs are paid to take it to the limit, so they'd just make the cars on the edge and just blow up at 1000' instead of 1320'.
For those that remember Orange County, it was pea gravel/sand 50/50, and was 3" to 6" below asphalt and maybe 2'-3' deep about 20' in. A car would fly level, then drop like a rock and stop. Other than Ron Goodsell in the Beach City Corvette who missed it completely, I was down there one time to watch Dave Russell go in and stop in about 10'. Of course he was only going maybe 100mph, but he had another 40' to go, and I thought it worked perfectly.
Alan
Nitro Member
What about the end of the track going up hill
That is ideal, if you look at Denver and Sears Point, they have nice uphill shutoff areas. I have seen cars on the telecast hit the sand at Denver, but I would presume that the thin air contributes to this as the chutes don't blossom as well.
Or are you talking about sloping the sand upward??
Alan
Nitro Member
OK...that is what Sears Point and Denver have, and I'm not sure about any others off the top of my head...wait..maybe Vegas??
Mikey
Nitro Member
Thats been a question I have been wondering about. Why is the sand traps higher than the racing surface? The funny cars I have seen enter the sand at speed have all flipped or been lauched. My examples being John Force, Grady Bryant, Del Worsham. It should at least be level with the surface, but I agree with it being below. The car then has to drop into it. Just my 2 cents
Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
Well, like I said, it's been a few days..........
It just seems like I specifically remember the car coming off the ground during all of this and actually saying something about it out loud to myself while watching it. Obviously, I was wrong.
Not that I don't trust you , Mitch, but I'm curious enough now to have another look.
Later,
Sean D
Paul
Nitro Member
"That is ideal, if you look at Denver and Sears Point, they have nice uphill shutoff areas."
Unfortunately a long shutoff area alone isn't enough to prevent fatalities. There was an alcohol dragster driver who was killed at Sears Point at a national event a while ago by a stuck throttle, for some reason she couldn't get to the fuel shutoff, she may have lost consciousness or got disoriented.
I think improving the safety of the cars and tracks needs to be continual process, in the same manner the teams are continually working on ways to make them go faster.
I'd like to see improved shutoff areas (go to 1000' at the tracks that need it) along with the development of a radio controlled backup fuel shutoff and chute deployment system that is automatically deployed a certain distance past the finish line.
We won't ever be able to totally eliminate the possibility of injuries to drivers but I think we can make them alot less likely than they are now.
The NHRA needs to have a full time safety director who works year round with the teams, manufacturers and track owners to be continually making improvements in the safety of the sport.
Paul T.
Unfortunately a long shutoff area alone isn't enough to prevent fatalities. There was an alcohol dragster driver who was killed at Sears Point at a national event a while ago by a stuck throttle, for some reason she couldn't get to the fuel shutoff, she may have lost consciousness or got disoriented.
I think improving the safety of the cars and tracks needs to be continual process, in the same manner the teams are continually working on ways to make them go faster.
I'd like to see improved shutoff areas (go to 1000' at the tracks that need it) along with the development of a radio controlled backup fuel shutoff and chute deployment system that is automatically deployed a certain distance past the finish line.
We won't ever be able to totally eliminate the possibility of injuries to drivers but I think we can make them alot less likely than they are now.
The NHRA needs to have a full time safety director who works year round with the teams, manufacturers and track owners to be continually making improvements in the safety of the sport.
Paul T.
Alan
Nitro Member
The shutoff is irrelevant if something like that happens. That was in 1997, the year before I started attending Seas Point. And you are correct, a long shutoff will not always prevent accidents and fatalities. But it can go along way in preventing some things from happening.
jackass
Nitro Member
I hate to say this but #1 #2 and #3 would not have helped in this instance.
Taller nets should be added for sure.. wouldn't be a bad thing.
Water Barriers would be nice past the nets... i saw a discovery deal on water bags while back.. used to cusion large cargo boats at docks.. they had early version that would bust like a ballon with water.. that would be an option that would work....rupture on impact..or.. maybe air bags.. like the ones used in motorsysle racing for road racing.. but a more durable material....
Softwalls as in the oval racing... from what i know from people that work with those and have hit a few... i seem to still think it would bring back the old problems the armco barriers caused and still cause in drag racing ..
#4.. only thing i can think of with that.. is faster cars going into the trap would be like a rock skipping over water... faster they are.. the farther they will go before sinking... there are other materials that would work for the traps... maybe a polimer material thats not so lite it would blow around or up the track... or maybe.. Coal Ash.... heavier than sand... lighter than the pea gravel they usualy use.. but it does blow around in strong enough winds....
#5.. should have already been done... many mountain range highways use elevated gravel roads and traps to slow run away trucks......so that would be perfect....
Billy
Alan
Nitro Member
I think the runoff should be more sand than anything, gravel would seem to allow the car to stay up on the surface more, due to the velocity and weight of the car, IMO. A big rig is heavy enough to plow into the pea gravel that is used.
And sloping the sand up into more of a berm seems like the way to go for the tracks with a shorter run-off. Anybody that is into engineering, etc. want to talk about this? Will it work?
And sloping the sand up into more of a berm seems like the way to go for the tracks with a shorter run-off. Anybody that is into engineering, etc. want to talk about this? Will it work?
Bob
Nitro Member
When that happened, the retaining walls didn't run the full length of the shutdown area. In what appeared to be an effort to scrub off speed, the driver left the racing surface onto the track side up slope, a sure recipe for disaster. The retaining walls ran the full length of the shutdown area the next day.
Rexfiles
Nitro Member
Being a eyewitness that was sitting at 1000', the rear tires did leave the racing surface upon the initial explosion.
It was clear to see because the fire was visible under the rear slicks.
The bouncing probably was just a result of the car coming off the surface and "basketballing".
At the time I cannot say if I saw any effort at all to be in control, however the replay does seem to show some steering input, now that could have been deliberate or just some oscillation in the front end.
All I can say was the speed going into the sand was tremendous to the 10th power, and the car did vault whatever crap was laid down in front of the concrete to "slow" it down.
Until that track is straightened out it should not have another 1320' sanctioned fuel race, IMO.
That is not the first fatality in that rotten shutdown, I have been there in person for one other, a jet car.
And I will not be returning, after 30 years.
REX
Six fatalities total at Raceway Park that i can recall
State police investigating Kalitta crash | APP.com | Asbury Park Press
Is that correct? I seem to remember the last fatality was that of a home built super comp Dragster that chassis broke apart. Was it that long ago? before that back when the there was a grass recovery strip a door car got out of shape, drove off the left side and tee boned the guardrail vaulting it and came to rest on the return road, Greg the division director at the time pointed out a broken seat belt on scene I remember (driver ejected) Before that was the jet car of Gerry Studnicka. before that in the seventies I watched a guy in a front engine B/Dragster wreck just past the finish line. Don't remember his name but he was very young and machined his own hemi heads for his Oldsmobile if i recall. Maybe someone here remembers his name? before that I witnessed another front engine Dragster a B/Fuel car called 'the Giant Killer' wreck at the finish line. He was a local comp racer from either keyport or red bank, don't remember his name. Anyone?
So there may not have been any fatalities in the last 25 years but from April 1970 when my dad first brought me there for my 15th birthday Till 13 years later there sure were a lot of fatalities at the park.
State police investigating Kalitta crash | APP.com | Asbury Park Press
Is that correct? I seem to remember the last fatality was that of a home built super comp Dragster that chassis broke apart. Was it that long ago? before that back when the there was a grass recovery strip a door car got out of shape, drove off the left side and tee boned the guardrail vaulting it and came to rest on the return road, Greg the division director at the time pointed out a broken seat belt on scene I remember (driver ejected) Before that was the jet car of Gerry Studnicka. before that in the seventies I watched a guy in a front engine B/Dragster wreck just past the finish line. Don't remember his name but he was very young and machined his own hemi heads for his Oldsmobile if i recall. Maybe someone here remembers his name? before that I witnessed another front engine Dragster a B/Fuel car called 'the Giant Killer' wreck at the finish line. He was a local comp racer from either keyport or red bank, don't remember his name. Anyone?
So there may not have been any fatalities in the last 25 years but from April 1970 when my dad first brought me there for my 15th birthday Till 13 years later there sure were a lot of fatalities at the park.
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Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
Thanks, Rex.
I went back and had another look, and I think you're right. I think the bouncing I remember seeing the first few times I looked at it was what you were saying, in that it was probably just residual bouncing from the initial percussion. Like you said, he was carrying a ton of speed heading into the sand, and I don't think that would've been the case had he been leaning on the brakes. The motor had expired, obviously, so unless the brakes were completely smoked, I would think he could've scrubbed off quite a bit more speed than that, since I doubt the motor was still pulling.
I've read enough of your posts on this topic to know where you stand on the whole shutdown length issue, particularly at E-Town. I also respect the fact that you've been fast, as I regularly compete in the neighborhood of 200Mph. Granted, 200Mph is nowhere near 300+, but our car only has one chute and brakes on the rear only, so I can at least appreciate generous shutdown lengths, nonetheless. I will respectfully say, however, that I still think attacking the problem through shutdown lengths is still kind of attacking it a little backwards, because the bottom line is, when the equipment functions properly, the cars can stop anywhere on tour easily without incident. That being said, don't you think that the issues leading to the need of extra shutdown need as much or more investigation? I'm not saying that lengthened shutdown areas don't need necessarily need looked at, but I think lengthened shutdowns, where possible, should complement the efforts to reduce the root cause, rather than being attacked as the root cause, when they're clearly not. As a driver, I would rather know how we can potentially reduce the amount of engine explosions, as well as late, tangled and burnt chutes. Can we eliminate those things? Probably not. But I bet we can improve. The presence of camera booms, concrete poles and solid barriers in that area of the track goes so far beyond the realm of common sense that I won't even address them. They shouldn't have been there, period.
Not trying to be a dick or anything. Just another point of view, that's all.
Sean D
Rexfiles
Nitro Member
All great points.
My issues are not with the speed, but the latter 3 issues you brought up addressing the shutdown area at that track were inexcusable, totally insane.
I cannot get the view from the camera in the basket out of my mind. I believe there are a few of us here that saw it, and that concrete barrier was for all intent and purposes a wall at that absolutely tremendous entrance speed.
I'll bet the farm we will never see that anywhere, it would be absolutely incriminating, IMO.
But I KNOW..............ahem.......what I saw.............
And it haunts me every day now.
I did not know Scott, but that is irrelevant.
That should not have happened, it was avoidable, the shutdown area is a abomination.
If the place cannot be made safe, not perfect, just common sense safe, and the video of the final impact and devastation IMO PROVES it is not, that should be it.
But it won't be...........it's all 'bout the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Screw the racers.
REX
I cannot get the view from the camera in the basket out of my mind. I believe there are a few of us here that saw it, and that concrete barrier was for all intent and purposes a wall at that absolutely tremendous entrance speed.
I'll bet the farm we will never see that anywhere, it would be absolutely incriminating, IMO.
But I KNOW..............ahem.......what I saw.............
And it haunts me every day now.
I did not know Scott, but that is irrelevant.
That should not have happened, it was avoidable, the shutdown area is a abomination.
If the place cannot be made safe, not perfect, just common sense safe, and the video of the final impact and devastation IMO PROVES it is not, that should be it.
But it won't be...........it's all 'bout the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Screw the racers.
REX
Rex, I am also having problems of getting the view from the camera in the sand trap out of my head. When I was talking to Timmah on Sunday night I told him that the view from the Motel 6 Vision truly showed the speed Scott entered the sand trap. All I remember is Scott hitting the front of the sand trap, getting airborne and the camera shot went blank to the Lucas Oil Supernationals emblem. I looked at my dad and told him that was not good, as I have never seen a car enter the trap at that speed and I knew what was beyond the sand trap. Yesterday, I saw a DHL truck and all I could think about was Scott, his family and friends, along with what I saw last Saturday. Between what I saw on the Motel 6 Vision and peoples reaction in the pits after the incident, I still have an upset stomach feeling in my gut. I also feel for the people on the top end who were involved with the rescue effort and were on the scene, to see one of the greats go through what he did has to have an impact on them also. I have faith the Napps will take the necessary actions to improve their track and I hope they will take the lead in setting the standards to improve all shutdown areas across the country (kind of like how Force has taken the lead with FC safety).
