Is Comp getting ready to run off the cliff? (2 Viewers)

[DG]

So are the comp millionaires just content to ride the class down to 6-7 entries so they can "protect their investment." Crazy.

It is time for NHRA to do what they do best. Make an arbitrary decision to add crate motor dragsters and stock bodied(21st century modified production) cars. If the comp millionaires bail, so be it. They will be replaced with more cars and bigger fields.

Many years ago, NHRA created the C/ED and C/EA classes for "stock heads, and generally available aftermarket carbs., manifolds, etc. That quickly evolved to a "creative interpretation" that drove the prices way up.

We made the decision to run TD, rather than SC, as we can still have fun making HP. Ultimately, TD and TS are just fast bracket races.

 

[DrRocket]

Many years ago, NHRA created the C/ED and C/EA classes for "stock heads, and generally available aftermarket carbs., manifolds, etc. That quickly evolved to a "creative interpretation" that drove the prices way up.

This happens all the time in other classes & other forms of racing. A sanctioning body creates a "low cost, entry level" class, or series or rules. Things are hunky dory for a (usually very short) while. Then, some racers take a close look at the rules and see "easy pickings." As was said about Smokey Yunick, they're good at going through the rulebook, and figuring out what it DOES NOT say you can't do. (Which of course led to the "Smokey Yunick Rules," enacted on Monday to ban what he'd gotten away with on Sunday.)

Happened with the ASA. In the mid '80s, they offered a V6 "low cost" alternative to the V8s then in use. Before long, engine builders were massaging the life out of the V6's, to the point where they were actually more expensive than the V8s. Shortly before the collapse of the ASA in 2004, they moved to sealed Chevy stock blocks that teams rented, which resulted in decent cost reductions for the team. But then, of course, there's that old bugaboo that some here hate, the "spec motor."

How many "true street legal" series have come and gone, where the cars quickly (d)evolve into little more than pro stockers with wipers, lights and horns?
It's the nature of the racing beast.

 

[Nunz]

Comp may be a "junior PS" but i don't beleive it's boring at all. Quite the opposite, there are still many wildly different combinations; I was at Indy 2 years ago when Jirka Kaplan won with his blown Alky altered, running 6.30s! NOT boring, and not predictable. The problem isn't boredom, it's dwindling car counts.

 

[Professor Dave]

I'm not going to argue the wisdom of racing comp (other than to say it really is a great challenge and the people you race with are great people). I will say this concerning the drop in car counts-there may be fewer cars, but the quality of the cars is really good, Check out what it took for guys to win first round today.

 

[DG]

www.DragRaceCentral.com

 

[NYNitro86]

It is a matter of economics. Less money to spend, higher fuel costs, a purse that has stagnated for 30 years, and more manufacturers posting no contingency or pulling out all together. There are also less options just to race because Comp isn't contested at every national like it used to be, requiring further travel to attend the same number of events as days past(ask the west coast guys about that). They added the event at Epping last year and didn't include Comp. We also don't have the national at Virginia, nor does Comp run at Bristol. Generally, I don't buy the TD and TS arguement as far as cost. When you look at what many of them have dumped into 700"+ nitrous assisted engines and Pro Stock style chassis, in the case of TS, many of them may be spending more than I am to basically bracket race. Almost all of the classes are hurting as far as numbers go. Not because the cars aren't out there, but because many are tightening the purse strings, so the car sits in the garage. We still have about 50 or so running Comp cars in D1, but you will only see close to 40 at one or maybe 2 LODRS races per season here. People are just picking races that make more economical sense.

Only a few National Events can get a legit 32 Car Field. E-Town being one of Them. Last Year's Points Race we had 40 Comp Cars and equal car counts for Both Top Dragster & Top Sportsman. Lebanon Valley on the Other Hand only gets barely 20, they don't usually get a good field.

 

[.]

It was kind of a bummer to have such a small field at Pomona. I blinked once and missed an entire session.

 

[DE3]

Only a few National Events can get a legit 32 Car Field. E-Town being one of Them. Last Year's Points Race we had 40 Comp Cars and equal car counts for Both Top Dragster & Top Sportsman. Lebanon Valley on the Other Hand only gets barely 20, they don't usually get a good field.

Many of the southern D1 contingent do not want to travel north, and those north don't want to travel south. That's why ETown and Maple Grove usually have better counts than most of the other tracks, because they are centrally located in the division. The cost of the class notwithstanding, travel costs are the probably one of the biggest factors in determining where many will go. You'll almost never get a full national field in D2,4,5,6, or 7 without teams from out of division showing up. Before this downturn, that was happening quite often. Now, it's not as easy to jump in the rig and go. There are businesses that need to be kept afloat, and families that need to eat!

 

[sammi]

NHRA really needs to roll comp back to being a car builders class (I don't mean order a car from Haas and a motor from Panella builders). Somehow the mentality on Financial Way has been to prop up the millionaires and exclude the masses who run super pro at tracks all over the country. Comp rules and class structure can be changed to allow weekend warriors to take a shot at a national event. I have to think the millionaires would be happy to see more "ducks" in their events. NHRA also needs to also stop propping up the LODRS by forcing cars to run those events before getting access to a national. Let the Div. races sink or swim on their own merits.

Competiton Eliminator needs a "czar" to oversee the class and work proactively to increase participation.

 

[DE3]

NHRA really needs to roll comp back to being a car builders class (I don't mean order a car from Haas and a motor from Panella builders). Somehow the mentality on Financial Way has been to prop up the millionaires and exclude the masses who run super pro at tracks all over the country. Comp rules and class structure can be changed to allow weekend warriors to take a shot at a national event. I have to think the millionaires would be happy to see more "ducks" in their events. NHRA also needs to also stop propping up the LODRS by forcing cars to run those events before getting access to a national. Let the Div. races sink or swim on their own merits.

Competiton Eliminator needs a "czar" to oversee the class and work proactively to increase participation.

I don't think the progression of the class is any fault of NHRA's in the grand scheme of things. Are there things they ca do to help? I believe so. Yes, the econo classes changed from the initial intent, and mods were allowed, but most everything else related to the costs has just come on the heels of new technology, and also those willing to build a business around it. The advancement in small block tech went wild when PST guys did a ton of R&D, and it trickled down to Comp. Pro Stock has done the same thing for the bigger motors. Then you throw in turbo and supercharger advances over the last several years. Can tweaks be made, yes, but it will never be a class that the weekend SP racer is just going to jump into overnight. And to be honest, I don't think I want to be rolling up on a guy who built his chassis in the backyard a week after learning how to weld. Not everyone who runs Comp are millionaires either, its probably a 50/50 split or less. But you have to be willing to work to run it, which begs the question: Are there just that many less people willing to get their hands dirty to make a car run, or do they just want to be handed a trophy?

As to LODRS races, Comp almost never reaches a quota anymore, so as long as you've been to 1 or 2, it really shouldn't affect whether or not you can enter a National. But in reality, should anyone be allowed into one of the premier events if they don't support other events? I think you'll find that this prerequisite is not uncommon in many sports.

As far as a czar, we have sportsman reps who gather feedback from the racers and then forward it to NHRA. A lot of the changes, for better or worse, are requested by the participants themselves. I've been involved where we also ask for input and it can be sobering when there is either limited response or some self serving responses. It's been asked that NHRA dedicate someone to directly oversee, and possibly look for class specific sponsors, but the resources evidently just aren't there right now. NHRA has their hands full trying with dwindling pro fields, and just trying to keep races sponsored. Take a look at how many nationals still have no title rights sponsor(5).

 

[Professor Dave]

I don't think the progression of the class is any fault of NHRA's in the grand scheme of things. Are there things they ca do to help? I believe so. Yes, the econo classes changed from the initial intent, and mods were allowed, but most everything else related to the costs has just come on the heels of new technology, and also those willing to build a business around it. The advancement in small block tech went wild when PST guys did a ton of R&D, and it trickled down to Comp. Pro Stock has done the same thing for the bigger motors. Then you throw in turbo and supercharger advances over the last several years. Can tweaks be made, yes, but it will never be a class that the weekend SP racer is just going to jump into overnight. And to be honest, I don't think I want to be rolling up on a guy who built his chassis in the backyard a week after learning how to weld. Not everyone who runs Comp are millionaires either, its probably a 50/50 split or less. But you have to be willing to work to run it, which begs the question: Are there just that many less people willing to get their hands dirty to make a car run, or do they just want to be handed a trophy?

As to LODRS races, Comp almost never reaches a quota anymore, so as long as you've been to 1 or 2, it really shouldn't affect whether or not you can enter a National. But in reality, should anyone be allowed into one of the premier events if they don't support other events? I think you'll find that this prerequisite is not uncommon in many sports.

As far as a czar, we have sportsman reps who gather feedback from the racers and then forward it to NHRA. A lot of the changes, for better or worse, are requested by the participants themselves. I've been involved where we also ask for input and it can be sobering when there is either limited response or some self serving responses. It's been asked that NHRA dedicate someone to directly oversee, and possibly look for class specific sponsors, but the resources evidently just aren't there right now. NHRA has their hands full trying with dwindling pro fields, and just trying to keep races sponsored. Take a look at how many nationals still have no title rights sponsor(5).

Very well put Donnie, particularly the part about not all of us being millionaires. That certainly is true in D1 and everyone will tell you that the key to winning comp in D1 is not how much money you spend, but how hard you work-that is true if your name is Greco or Aragona or Hill or Eckel or Carnasciale or Barone or Ackerman or Szupka or Ippolitto or Cultrera or Darcy or Hughes or Niemczyk or Bollman or Ross and the list goes on (no offense to all the great racers whose names are not on that list).

 

[andujar]

VIDEO: Comp at the Summernationals @ Englishtown 2017

 

[Cliff]

That was a great video. I was impressed at the "R's" some of those cars were turning. Like 10,500 or more.... Lotsa 4 bangers & V-6 cars. Anyone notice that Vincent Nobile was driving Barone's C/SR? He lost first round due to a problem, but it was cool to see him race for Barone. That is a first class car. They had a decent turnout of cars.

 

[NYNitro86]

That was a great video. I was impressed at the "R's" some of those cars were turning. Like 10,500 or more.... Lotsa 4 bangers & V-6 cars. Anyone notice that Vincent Nobile was driving Barone's C/SR? He lost first round due to a problem, but it was cool to see him race for Barone. That is a first class car. They had a decent turnout of cars.

they stayed even with last year. Comp & Pro mod were the 2 categories that did not change from last year. everyone else went down including the lowest car counts for TF & PS in the past 22 years

 

[andujar]

 

[Cliff]

Wow... announcer said Aragona's dragster, first one in the video, had a 5 cyl engine! Based on Chevy Colorado truck. Didn't know anyone was running that engine. OK, what class could you run a turbo 3 cyl??

 

[none]

Wow... announcer said Aragona's dragster, first one in the video, had a 5 cyl engine! Based on Chevy Colorado truck. Didn't know anyone was running that engine. OK, what class could you run a turbo 3 cyl??

It's a billet 6 cyl. Dart made the block and Dart/Slawko did the head.
Alan

 

[Cliff]

Thanks Alan. I love the variety of Comp.

 

[andujar]

Wow... announcer said Aragona's dragster, first one in the video, had a 5 cyl engine! Based on Chevy Colorado truck. Didn't know anyone was running that engine. OK, what class could you run a turbo 3 cyl??

That was the car Doug Doll won the Comp world championship with last year. It was Charlie Greco's, he left racing and sold it to the Aragona's...

 

[andujar]

Comp Final Video at Lebanon Valley LODRS: