Is Comp getting ready to run off the cliff? (1 Viewer)

[sammi]

Wow, 19 entries at Pomona. Has the Competition Eliminator of the 21st century (pro stock technology, transporters, million dollar budgets, etc.) veered off the track in terms of viability and affordability?

Do the well funded dozen comp teams really have the right or reason to oppose "budget" classes added to their shrinking show?

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Can't believe it's taken this long, actually......

Sean D

 

[PJ]

Love comp but it's crazy now. I would rather they drop everything below alky and run 1 or 2 bracket classes. Run your own number, no CIC, no throttle stops. Have a 7 second dragster try to run down a 14 sec grocery getter.

 

[Randy]

Sad actually.

 

[Nunz]

Comp has gotten to be a very serious, expensive class. Has been for awhile. And, the costs to hit the road have gone up for everyone, regardless of class. I hate to see it happen, my dad ran an A/A when I was a kid (that's why I was happy when Alan Ellis won the title), but Comp is in trouble. The past 2 years, Indy has fallen short for it's big 64 car field. Simply economics.

 

[Nunz]

BTW, this is why Top Dragster and Top Sportsman are so big now.

 

[DE3]

It is a matter of economics. Less money to spend, higher fuel costs, a purse that has stagnated for 30 years, and more manufacturers posting no contingency or pulling out all together. There are also less options just to race because Comp isn't contested at every national like it used to be, requiring further travel to attend the same number of events as days past(ask the west coast guys about that). They added the event at Epping last year and didn't include Comp. We also don't have the national at Virginia, nor does Comp run at Bristol. Generally, I don't buy the TD and TS arguement as far as cost. When you look at what many of them have dumped into 700"+ nitrous assisted engines and Pro Stock style chassis, in the case of TS, many of them may be spending more than I am to basically bracket race. Almost all of the classes are hurting as far as numbers go. Not because the cars aren't out there, but because many are tightening the purse strings, so the car sits in the garage. We still have about 50 or so running Comp cars in D1, but you will only see close to 40 at one or maybe 2 LODRS races per season here. People are just picking races that make more economical sense.

 

[DG]

In 2012 and 2013 there were only 24 cars that actually ran. Comp sometimes will pick up a couple of cars over the preentered list

 

[Bob]

BTW, this is why Top Dragster and Top Sportsman are so big now.

I would suggest that Top Dragster and Top Sportsman are big is because some Super Comp and Super Gas racers wanted to dump the throttle stop and go as fast as they could, yet still be dial-in racing. It has little or nothing to do with Comp.

 

[Toejam]

I would suggest that Top Dragster and Top Sportsman are big is because some Super Comp and Super Gas racers wanted to dump the throttle stop and go as fast as they could, yet still be dial-in racing. It has little or nothing to do with Comp.

I was just gonna suggest I bet many former Comp racers have opted for TD and TS!

 

[Nunz]

I believe many, not all, but many, TD & TS racers would run Comp. or may have before, if it wasn't so cost prohibitive. For that matter, many TD racers would run TAD and TS racers would run PS or PM. TDs that run low 6's are not cheap cars, but it's a big difference in budget to run, say A/D or B/D. If you have a car fast enough to qualify for TD or TS, you have a shot at winning. In Comp, you are constantly chasing technology and different combinations. I believe it's very close to Pro Stock. BTW, Alan Ellis' A/A won the Comp title using WJ engines.

 

[Professor Dave]

The cost of comp depends on the class in comp you are racing and whether or not you are buying an engine or still have the capability of building your own-I was shocked when I heard how much someone I know has in a TD and that's not even a blown motor (a TD without a blower or a big nitrous motor will soon no longer be able to qualify). The big thing about comp is the amount of work that you have to put into the car to be competitive-it is just not the money.

 

[Toejam]

It is a matter of economics. Less money to spend, higher fuel costs, a purse that has stagnated for 30 years, and more manufacturers posting no contingency or pulling out all together. There are also less options just to race because Comp isn't contested at every national like it used to be, requiring further travel to attend the same number of events as days past(ask the west coast guys about that). They added the event at Epping last year and didn't include Comp. We also don't have the national at Virginia, nor does Comp run at Bristol. Generally, I don't buy the TD and TS arguement as far as cost. When you look at what many of them have dumped into 700"+ nitrous assisted engines and Pro Stock style chassis, in the case of TS, many of them may be spending more than I am to basically bracket race. Almost all of the classes are hurting as far as numbers go. Not because the cars aren't out there, but because many are tightening the purse strings, so the car sits in the garage. We still have about 50 or so running Comp cars in D1, but you will only see close to 40 at one or maybe 2 LODRS races per season here. People are just picking races that make more economical sense.

Well all you have to do is look at the TD/TS entries versus SC/SG to see the vast cost variance!

 

[sammi]

So, are the comp millionaires just content to ride the class down to 6-7 entries so they can "protect their investment?" Crazy.

It is time for NHRA to do what they do best. Make an arbitrary decision to add crate motor dragsters and stock bodied(21st century modified production) cars. If the comp millionaires bail, so be it. They will be replaced with more cars and bigger fields.

 

[Professor Dave]

So are the comp millionaires just content to ride the class down to 6-7 entries so they can "protect their investment." Crazy.

It is time for NHRA to do what they do best. Make an arbitrary decision to add crate motor dragsters and stock bodied cars. If he comp millionaires bail, so be it. They will be replaced with more cars and bigger fields.

I'm sympathetic to the idea of holding down costs in comp, but the idea of a crate motor in comp just seems so against the idea of innovation that is so characteristic of comp-and policing what is or isn't a crate motor is a problem.

 

[Terry]

I'm sympathetic to the idea of holding down costs in comp, but the idea of a crate motor in comp just seems so against the idea of innovation that is so characteristic of comp-and policing what is or isn't a crate motor is a problem.

Dr. Dave, I remember when the Econo Altered and Econo Dragster classes were added as an attempt to provide a lower cost avenue into Comp. I'm not well versed on Comp anymore, but it appeared that the econo classes soon morphed into basically the same setups but with one 4 barrel and some automatic transes.
I agree with you that a crate situation would stifle the innovation inherent in Comp, but in your opinion (as a real live Comp racer!) is a revisit of the Econo rules a possible way to create an "entry level" into Comp racing while still allowing the non econo classes to remain unfettered?

 

[none]

Comp used to be my favorite eliminator....now it's nothing but Junior Pro Stock......boring :-(

 

[Mooseman]

Any time you try to make a class cheap with econo motors (6-cylinders and other budget minded motor choices) things get expensive because usually cheap engines are engines that are not normally used and the aftermarket support is not there so it costs so much more to be competitive as you have to start from scratch with development.

 

[Professor Dave]

Dr. Dave, I remember when the Econo Altered and Econo Dragster classes were added as an attempt to provide a lower cost avenue into Comp. I'm not well versed on Comp anymore, but it appeared that the econo classes soon morphed into basically the same setups but with one 4 barrel and some automatic transes.
I agree with you that a crate situation would stifle the innovation inherent in Comp, but in your opinion (as a real live Comp racer!) is a revisit of the Econo rules a possible way to create an "entry level" into Comp racing while still allowing the non econo classes to remain unfettered?

The big costs of building even a four cylinder motor are the head and the valve train parts to run them at high rpm. The valve train innovations have driven up both rpms and costs in comp like they have in pro-stock. Four-valve motors are much easier on valve-trains (no push rods and lower valve spring pressures), but Jesel is still getting a nice price (no problem-he doesn't sell many of them, so it's hard to spread R&D over a lot of volume) for what we use. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of four-valve classes in comp.
To have a true econo class, you'd have to limit rpms and limiting spending on heads-some have suggested a spec head and maybe spec manifolds. Maybe you could limit rpms by eliminating roller lifters like in NASCAR, but look what those guys spend on engines. But drag racers and especially comp racers are going to try to get the most out of an engine, given the rules and that costs money or time or both. I know the reason we have a healthy turn-out of comp back east is because a lot of racers are building their own motors. I wouldn't be able to afford to race comp if Al Ackerman was not building my engine essentially for the cost of parts. Aragona builds his own-Jerry Russo did the same-rumor has it he is retiring, which si too bad because he is both a great guy and a great racer and the list goes on.

 

[twostep]

Love comp but it's crazy now. I would rather they drop everything below alky and run 1 or 2 bracket classes. Run your own number, no CIC, no throttle stops. Have a 7 second dragster try to run down a 14 sec grocery getter.

This is exactly what needs to happen. Who wants to spend $100 grand on a small block Comp small block that has to be freshened constantly, and another $250 grand on a competitive car? And race all weekend for peanuts? I realize 'bracket racing' has an amateurish ring to it but I'd rather see a 32-car field of varied and interesting bracket racers (two classes, 9.99 and quicker, 10.00 and slower) slugging it out than watch a handful of $400-500K Pro Stock clones racing for a purse that won't even pay the transporter's fuel bill.