Nitromater

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Is Big Brown gonna do it?

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The Swegian

Nitro Member
The way he ran in the Preakness Saturday and coming from the 20 post to win the Derby, he looks awfully strong. Ya gotta feel he's bound for Triple Crown glory. I'm really looking forward to the Belmont but I'll be in Joliet so will likely miss it.
 
BB is def. the class of the field. I dont know if its b/c he's just that good or which it seems to me that he just doesnt have a whole lotta competition. I think the Belmont will be the deciding factor. He's going to have to go up against Casino Drive from Japan who's had success already at Belmont. So we will see. I hope he can pull it off. It would be nice to see. I pulled the last few times we've had a horse that could of done it. Funny Cide and Smarty Jones I believe. Might have been one more here recently but I cant remember. Here's an article from the Houston Chronicle this morning:

Belmont wild card awaits Big Brown | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
 
If his Jockey holds him in the pack as he did at both the derby and this past weekend then lets him be the competitor that he really is, he'll have enough left in him to outclass anything they bring to the track, including this Japanese wonder horse they are talking about.
 
I have never seen anything like Big Brown, and I have watched horse racing very intently for most of my 34 years. Not even when Cigar won 16 in a row including back-to-back Breeder's Cup Classics. You can stop and start a good horse once ... but Kent Desormeaux did it twice in the Preakness ... and when he turned Big Brown loose he opened up 6 lengths in 5 strides!!!

He has scared off all the good 3 year olds, Colonel John has shipped back to California as he wants no part of Big Brown, Pyro is still in Kentucky waiting for the connections to figure out what that horse is gonna do next. It will be all nags in the Belmont, and this Japanese shipper Casino Drive is only gonna be a minimal nuisance to Big Brown.

You will get to see him only twice more after the Belmont, the Travers at Saratoga and the Breeder's Cup Classic at Santa Anita this fall, then out to stud he goes ....

If he does get beat it will be at the Classic, he will have to run against 4 and 5 year olds and Santa Anita is an artificial surface, which he has never run on, but I sure as heck wouldn't bet against him there either ....
 
What he did coming 'round the 4th turn blew me away!

Like he was shot out of a cannon..I'm impressed.

Talk is of that horse training in Japan could give him a run..to turn 3 maybe..LOL
 
What he did coming 'round the 4th turn blew me away!

Like he was shot out of a cannon..I'm impressed.

Talk is of that horse training in Japan could give him a run..to turn 3 maybe..LOL

Casino Drive is here in the States, and won the Peter Pan stakes at Belmont against a bunch of nags a couple of weeks ago. He is still going to have to stretch out another 3/16ths of a mile for the Belmont, and do it trying to run with or run down the fastest horse in a LONG TIME. Casino Drive is only getting some play because he is also undefeated and he seems to be the best candidate to hype the race up against Big Brown. Casino Drive has raced nobody in nothing races, don't believe the hype.
 
Chris, I know your big into the horse deal. I am sure I could find this on my own but I'm not going to try. What is Big Brown's time at the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness compared to what other winners have ran in the past? I guess that would settle if he's really that great or if he is just a good horse with no competition. He was amazing when he took off and charged to the lead. I will be pulling for him at the Belmont.
 
Chris, I know your big into the horse deal. I am sure I could find this on my own but I'm not going to try. What is Big Brown's time at the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness compared to what other winners have ran in the past? I guess that would settle if he's really that great or if he is just a good horse with no competition. He was amazing when he took off and charged to the lead. I will be pulling for him at the Belmont.


Big Brown won the Derby in 2:01.82.
Derby (and track) record is 1:59.40 by Secretariat in '73.

So as you can see he was over 2 seconds off of Big Red's pace. This year's Derby was not considered fast by most standards, but the numbers are deceptive. Big Brown was easing at the wire, and even though the track was listed as fast, lots of rain the day before and the morning of the Derby had softened the track some.

The Preakness time by Big Brown was not represenative at all, at almost 4 seconds off the stakes record, but Big Brown was practically walking across the line and the early fractions were slow and rain had slowed down the surface here as well.

It is VERY possible (probable) that we will never see the best this horse has to offer ... if he opens up a big lead again in the Belmont, they will ease him down again.
 
Justin, actual race times aren't necessarily a good measure by which to compare horses from one era to the next due to several factors; raceday conditions, track prep, and race pace being among them. That being said, Secretariat's 1:59 2/5 1973 Derby is astounding by all measure. Big Brown ran it in 2:01 4/5 which is a respectable time, but when compared head-to-head with Big Red leaves BB about 13 lengths to the rear.

I don't remember the Preakness numbers off the top of my head but there's been a controversy over the timing of Secretariat's race and, if memory serves, the record doesn't officially belong to him but clearly should. Secretariat's Belmont is one of the most astounding performances by a racehorse and I am absolutely DYING to see how BB handles the mile and a half in NY!

edit - Chris beat me to the punch!
 
Holy crap, alot of people lost ALOT of money on this Saturday.
Some of people MADE a lot of money too.

1st 6 DA' TARA $79.00 $28.00 $14.80

$2 EX (6/4) paid $659.00

$2 TRI (6/4/9) paid $3,954.00

$2 SPR (6/4/8/9) paid $48,637.00
 
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If his Jockey holds him in the pack as he did at both the derby and this past weekend then lets him be the competitor that he really is, he'll have enough left in him to outclass anything they bring to the track, including this Japanese wonder horse they are talking about.
I just hate being right all the time?
On any given day, my coaches always said?
 
I don't play a lot, and had I went to the track today I probably would have smeared out my money over the field. Not saying I wouldn't have laid some money off on Big Brown, but I would have taken some chances.

For a couple of reasons. 1-4 odds on Brown. Not really gonna get rich with those odds.
A hoof that was suspect.
Missed a workout this week.
#1 position. He has won a lot of his races by staying off the rail and out of traffic.
Thats a long race, in 90 degree heat, for a horse that overpowers the field in shorter races, and looks impressive. He had nothing at half track, that was obvious.
In 140 years, only 11 horses have accomplished winning the Triple Crown. Odds were against it.

The jock pulled him up early, and I wonder if his hoof wasn't an issue going into 1 the way he shuddered his head.
His vet says no, but it aint like the horse is Mr. Ed.

Congrats to the DA' TARA, jock Alan Garcia, owner Robert LaPenta, and everyone who laid out more than 10 bucks on him. EDIT: Wire to wire by the way.
 
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The horse was running on a patched cracked hoof and a steroid. And before someone jumps up and says that the 'reports' state the injury was of no consequence, a horse is only as good as it's feet and legs.

Hopefully, the racing industry will police itself before someone else has to come in to look out for the welfare of creatures who have no choice in what they are being made to do.... and at such a young age at that.
 
Wow is all I can say. I thought Big Brown was a lock ... but I spread some money on the longshots just in case ... but alas Da' Tara was not one of them. I had a $5 Trifecta box of 4-8-9 ... which would have been perfect had Da Tara not won, as they finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th. I bet Anak Nakal (the 8) accross the board, so I got a small piece of my money back.

I will be at Churchill Downs next Saturday for the Stephen Foster Handicap, I will get to see Curlin run.

Now for my "If I was the King of Horse Racing" rant:

1. Ban ALL drugs. The USA is the ONLY country in the world that allows any type of drugs at all ... be they steroids or breathing aids such as Lasix. If everyone else can do without them, so can we.
2. Switch the triple crown to 4 year olds. 99% of the people watching don't know how old the horses are, and really don't care. It gives them an extra year to develop, and the horses should remain more sound.
3. Switch the triple crown to a 1 race a month format. Keep the Derby as the first Saturday in May, move the Preakness to the first Saturday in June and then the Belmont to the first Saturday in July.
4. Continue the development of Polytrack, cushion track and any other viable synthetic surface with the goal of having migrated all of horse racing to the "safer" surfaces within 10 years ... when all the data is in and correctly interpreted.
5. Try to figure out a way to break the stranglehold the breeders have on the game. All the money is made in the shed now rather than on the track, which is why after the Breeder's Cup Classic race this fall ... you will never see Big Brown again ... and that is a shame.
6. One national racing organization, rather than each individual state regulating the action. This would be better for the horses as it would unify racing and drug standards (hopefully make it easier to ban all drugs and implement surface standards). It would be better for the horsemen as it would bring in-line purse structure across the board. It would be better for the game as you would have one entity negotiating simulcast rights, as well as network TV deals and distributing all monies in an (hopefully) equitable manner.

NONE of these things will ever happen without enormous outside pressure, or all of those "we have always done it this way" old-timers die off and are not replaced by people of similar thinking, which is very unlikely. In other words, unless someone waves a magic wand and makes me King ... don't hold your breath.
 
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NONE of these things will ever happen without enormous outside pressure, or all of those "we have always done it this way" old-timers die off and are not replaced by people of similar thinking, which is very unlikely. In other words, unless someone waves a magic wand and makes me King ... don't hold your breath.
The majority of those things will never happen, although many should. For one simple reason.

Apply drag racing to what was just posted. Especially with the current fuel crisis.

As much as everyone around here complains out "tree huggers" and "whacko environmentalists" and racing, why should any people or organizations have anything to say about what people do with the animals they own?

You dont want those people messing with auto racing, and horse people don't want others messing with their livelihoods. I know many people that would lose their homes, cars, land etc if it weren't for horse racing as we know it today. Not to mention the amounts wagered each year.

No one here would like things one bit if the proposal for racing is, no more 500 milers, 250 max, no more nitromethane, use alky, no more high octane racing fuel, use pump gas, and on, and on, and on.

It isn't considered cruel, they are bred for one thing and one thing only, (well two if they are winners) and lots of money is invested and bet on them.

I am not trying to argue, be callous or demean anyone, but that is the way I feel. And yes, I have spent a few days around horse barns.
 
The majority of those things will never happen, although many should. For one simple reason.

As much as everyone around here complains out "tree huggers" and "whacko environmentalists" and racing, why should any people or organizations have anything to say about what people do with the animals they own?

It isn't considered cruel, they are bred for one thing and one thing only, (well two if they are winners) and lots of money is invested and bet on them.

I am not trying to argue, be callous or demean anyone, but that is the way I feel. And yes, I have spent a few days around horse barns.

IMO, if my proposal was followed, owners, trainers, jocks and tracks would make MORE money. The Breeders who control the game now would take a short term hit as they would have to wait an extra year to get horses to breed them.

I agree in principal that you shouldn't be walking around telling people what to do with their property, but at some point, you have to save the game from itself. The state regulatory boards in place now have NO interest or power to provide a means to get the game where it should be, so 1 national organization to regulate the game such as MLB regulates pro baseball would/should work. I want to be clear I am NOT talking about governmental regulation.
 
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