Nitromater

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!


GM Plant Closing

1320Classifieds.net

Post your FREE classified ads today.
No Fees, No Hassle, just simple and effective Ads.


I don't ever have a bumper sticker on my car but if I did, it would read:
"Keep the Sierra Club West of the Sierras"
 
Blame it on the tree huggers who congress is kissing @$$ to by voting down bills like drilling in the USA.

I wouldn't blame it entirely on the tree huggers, although they did play a part, but you have those Union people who slow down or halt production every time they don't get what they want. UAW forces these car manufacturers to basically wipe their butts and pay them for 'senoritiy' even if they are a poor employee. They can't hire a younger, cheaper work force because of these contracts that some of those older workers take full advantage of pricey health plans.
 
UAW forces these car manufacturers to basically wipe their butts and pay them for 'senoritiy' even if they are a poor employee.

Just how does the UAW force the car companies to accept their contracts? It seems to me that every union contract gets signed by the union and management.

They can't hire a younger, cheaper work force because of these contracts that some of those older workers take full advantage of pricey health plans.

So that sounds like you favor firing older employees when they get sick. Is that right?

Or do you just favor firing all employees when they reach a certain age?

Jim
 
Just how does the UAW force the car companies to accept their contracts? It seems to me that every union contract gets signed by the union and management.



So that sounds like you favor firing older employees when they get sick. Is that right?

Or do you just favor firing all employees when they reach a certain age?

Jim

Uh, the workers held a strike because they weren't getting what they wanted. And they can prohibit the employer from putting in replacement workers, so the employer can keep making money.

I favor being able to put who I want in a position based on skill, not senority.

If an older worker retires, I want to be able to put whoever I want, rather than the next lump in the "senority" who may not be the more productive.
 
Uh, the workers held a strike because they weren't getting what they wanted. And they can prohibit the employer from putting in replacement workers, so the employer can keep making money.

Who agreed to the contract?

And, BTW, what does a union contract have to do with declining truck sales because of the high cost of gasoline?

GM is cutting truck production -- and laying off 10,000 of those union workers you do not like -- because no one is buying the trucks. The plant closings have nothing to do with the employees.

The real fault goes to management who was so taken in by the high sales and high profit of trucks that it ignored what was going on in the real world.

Jim
 
I'll try to avoid the Union debate but I'll ask this.
How does any domestic auto maker compete fairly with a variance of over $20. per hour per plant employee?

This nearly always ends in a debate of foreign VS domestic so, I'll give you something to really bash away at me with so get your keyboards out, your facts straight and then fire away.

Today's domestic autos are equal or superior in almost every way to anything produced anywhere on the planet. I'll give you some simple examples from my personal garage that anyone who wishes to debate can have their own personal festival with:

* I drive a Chevy truck that is incomparable to anything foreign made. It's a new GM Crew Cab Duramax Dually. We've had three of them. They get well over 17 MPG in town and up-wards of 20 MPG on the road and they will out-pull, out-tow, out-muscle, out last any truck ever massed produced outside the US.

* We have two new Corvettes. They will also out-perform most any other production car on the planet in up-wards of a dozen categories at a fraction of the cost. Oh, by the way, my average MPG on this beast is currently 28.4 average over the past 7000 miles.

* We have a number of 30+ year old Chevys as well. Everyone has been well kept and maintained and some have been reasonably restored. Without exception, every one will sell at an open market price of many multiples their original purchase price from the dealer. In essence, they have been paying us to own them.

* I could go on for hours but I'll close this book with this one. My son Buzzz's first vehicle was a '75 Blazer. He still has this truck. It has over 500K miles and would sell well above it's original purchase price but the most valuable domestic-exclusive characteristic is it's full frame structure. At the age of 18 he fell asleep at the wheel after a very long hard weekend and hit a telephone pole directly in front of the driver at speed. Not only did the solid framework of this vehicle not crush, collapse and fold as the foreign automakers of the day were touting but it maintained it's structure sufficient to cut the pole off at the ground, knocking a 20 ft.+ section away. He was able to not only operate the truck thereafter but only a bumper, hood and grill was replaced to restore it's beauty. He and his passenger came home safely without a scratch. There never has been, and I doubt there will ever be a foreign vehicle that could have withstood such an impact and return my son to me unscathed as this Blazer did. As a result, my wife drives a new Suburban to this day and always will.

You could show me the wonders of the foreign auto makers until the cows come home but I'll respectfully pass on ever owning a foreign car. I'll also understand if you disagree.

Which foreign auto makers can stake these claims?
 
I'll try to avoid the Union debate but I'll ask this.
How does any domestic auto maker compete fairly with a variance of over $20. per hour per plant employee?

That has nothing at al to do with the reason GM is closing truck plants. A few years ago, GM was selling all the trucks it could produce, at the prices it wanted, despite any labor disadvantage.

The reason GM is closing plants now is because the only people big SUVs and trucks now are people who really need them. Sales are down.

There was recently a three-month long strike that halted production of the Yukon. Even with the strike, GM still had a 120-day supply of Yukons ready to sale.

These plant closings are not being caused by union contracts. They are being closed because the four plants produce vehicles that are not selling.

Jim
 
490 employees took the buyout at the Arlington, Texas plant.

Ironic, since that is the ONE plant staying open. The only 2 reasons it avoided the axe were made very clear on local news by the local congressman (I am in Texarkana this week).

1. Only GM SUV plant currently tooled for hybrids.
2. Texas only right-to-work state that currently has a GM SUV plant.
 
Ironic, since that is the ONE plant staying open. The only 2 reasons it avoided the axe were made very clear on local news by the local congressman (I am in Texarkana this week).

1. Only GM SUV plant currently tooled for hybrids.
2. Texas only right-to-work state that currently has a GM SUV plant.
That translates to, it would be too expensive to retool the closing truck plants to make smaller fuel efficient vehicles and pay union scale to all employees. Those costs combined would price the end products much higher than the Honda's, Toyota's, Nissan's, Mazda's, Isuzu's, Kia's, Subaru's and Hyundai's on the market today.

I've owned two Subaru's, a Nissan and an Isuzu. I've also owned two Chevy's, four Mopar's and three Ford's, and Bultaco, Kawasaki and Yamaha motorcycles.

The Isuzu is my daily driver, has been for the last 11 years. It has 168,000 miles on it and is still running strong. This car was made by a Japanese company with help from Lotus (they designed the suspension). At the same time this car was made, GM was putting a different nose and tail (cosmetic changes) on them and selling the same cars as GEO Storm GSi's. GM saw a well built product and sold it under their brand umbrella. This was a fairly common practice in the 1990's. I don't know if this is still happening, but if not, maybe it should.
 
What our wonderful press doesnt bother to tell you is that GM is going to reopen 4 plants that have been closed and I'd bet money that most of the laid off employees had a chance to take a job at one of those plants.
 
The Isuzu is my daily driver, has been for the last 11 years. It has 168,000 miles on it and is still running strong. This car was made by a Japanese company with help from Lotus (they designed the suspension). At the same time this car was made, GM was putting a different nose and tail (cosmetic changes) on them and selling the same cars as GEO Storm GSi's. GM saw a well built product and sold it under their brand umbrella. This was a fairly common practice in the 1990's. I don't know if this is still happening, but if not, maybe it should.

That Isuzu was also the basis for the Saturn SC1, and the first Saturn sedans were rebadged Isuzu IMarks. GM got their money's worth out of that design.

Rebadging across brands is still very common. The Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Matrix. The Mazda Navajo is a Ford Explorer. The VW Passat is an Audi A4. The Porsche Cayenne is an Audi Q7 is a VW Toureg. The Mercury Zephyr is a Ford 500. The Infiniti G35 is a Nissan 350Z. The Cadillac Escalade is a GMC Yukon is a Chevy Tahoe. Etc ... Etc ...
 
That Isuzu was also the basis for the Saturn SC1, and the first Saturn sedans were rebadged Isuzu IMarks. GM got their money's worth out of that design.

Rebadging across brands is still very common. The Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Matrix. The Mazda Navajo is a Ford Explorer. The VW Passat is an Audi A4. The Porsche Cayenne is an Audi Q7 is a VW Toureg. The Mercury Zephyr is a Ford 500. The Infiniti G35 is a Nissan 350Z. The Cadillac Escalade is a GMC Yukon is a Chevy Tahoe. Etc ... Etc ...

Not to be anal, but....

The Passat, last I heard is no longer based on the A4. It's a completely new front-drive design -they were tired of people buying Passats instead of A4's and saving $15K on basically the same car. And the Mercury you're thinking about is the Sable, which is the same car as the Taurus. The Lincoln Zephyr (now called the Mark Z) is basically a Ford Fusion with a fancy interior (and a better motor). The Infiniti G37 rides on the same platform as the 350z but has a backseat (they couldn't put a backseat in the 350z due to it's unique suspension design).
 
And, BTW, what does a union contract have to do with declining truck sales because of the high cost of gasoline?

GM is cutting truck production -- and laying off 10,000 of those union workers because no one is buying the trucks.
The real fault goes to management who was so taken in by the high sales and high profit of trucks that it ignored what was going on in the real world.

Jim

Ding Ding Ding
S/F
D
 
Not to be anal, but....

And the Mercury you're thinking about is the Sable, which is the same car as the Taurus. The Lincoln Zephyr (now called the Mark Z) is basically a Ford Fusion with a fancy interior (and a better motor).

No, I would never consciously think about a Sable or Taurus.

EVERY Lincoln is just a rebadged Ford ... there are no bespoke Lincolns ... just as every GMC is just a rebadged Chevy ... there are no bespoke GMCs.

I was just using the earlier examples to show that cross-badging still occurs on a much more wide-spread basis than most folks realize.
 
That Isuzu was also the basis for the Saturn SC1, and the first Saturn sedans were rebadged Isuzu IMarks. GM got their money's worth out of that design.

No, they were not. The first Saturns were a unique design that was not shared with any other GM car. They had their own chassis construction, their own engines and plastic body panels. The current Saturns are based on one of GM's Opel models.

Jim
 
Ways To Support Nitromater

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top