Frugal, Smaller-Budgeted NHRA Top Fuel Racers Sound Off (1 Viewer)

[T.Smith]

A good read.

http://www.dragzine.com/features/frugal-smaller-budgeted-nhra-top-fuel-racers-sound-off/

 

[justafan]

Very good read. Thanks for sharing the link.

 

[.]

If they don't do something fast we're going to have a lot short fields.

 

[CrewMan]

Helluva read...and spot on.

Whoever said this....anyone want to take a crack at who it might have been ......

“At Denver a few years back, we make our runs and I come up for our fourth qualifying runs and [a high-ranking NHRA official] said, ‘Why are you running? There’s only 16 cars.’ I said, “Well, there’s only 16 cars. I figured it’s better for the show if there are more cars.’ He said, ‘Actually, Steve, we don’t care if you guys run, as long as the big guys do.’

That right there shows the arrogance of the current staff...if I was Peter Clifford...I'd be putting that attitude to rest right now.

 

[JB3]

I don't want short fields either ... but seriously, does Terry McMillen really want us to believe that without the NHRA oil down fines he would be fielding a more competitive car? His statement about "it happens to everybody" is not necessarily factual. Event statistics will tell you that he, and a very few other teams, blow up far more often than most. In contrast, didn't Ron Capps just have his first oil down of the year in Charlotte? Others also may have only used their "freebie". Doesn't much of the blame need to fall upon the shoulders of McMillen and his crew. I know its not intentional, but this is not something new for his team over the years. Is $21,000 really the difference between being competitive (winning rounds) or not? He's frustrated, I get that.

I think its strictly the overall expense of racing that is hurting the sport, which the fines are a piece of. I am confident there are PROFESSIONAL drag teams out there that are so far over extended financially, that life after drag racing may not be kind to them. Reality is that this unfortunately has become a wealthy mans game which has been discussed here. Not all teams are owned / operated by wealthy people yet they have all the same trailers, cars, and motor coaches of the high $$ mega teams. The sport, at all levels, has become as much about playing the game (looking good and smelling good) as it has about fielding competitive races cars.

Little off topic, but sort of related ... why are National Event class quotas lower than ever in the sportsman ranks? Take a walk through the pits at a National or Divisional event ... everyone is towing 80 feet of stuff including a coach or stacker plus a trailer. You have Comp and Top Sportsman guys with 18 wheelers just like the Pro's. Tracks can only fit about 2/3 of what they used to be able to hold.

Like everything, it has gone uncontrolled for so long that it will be hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

 

[Rajunz]

NHRA seems like they are trying to address the issue, Clifford has been making a lot of positive changes.

To me, half of that article was on spot, the rest of it sounded like whining about not being able to financially race in a class above one's means.

I had a friend that used to race an alcohol funny car. Financially he had no business doing it, was never really competitive either. I used to ask, why don't you just build a Comp car or something where you can actually win?

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Helluva read...and spot on.

Whoever said this....anyone want to take a crack at who it might have been ......

“At Denver a few years back, we make our runs and I come up for our fourth qualifying runs and [a high-ranking NHRA official] said, ‘Why are you running? There’s only 16 cars.’ I said, “Well, there’s only 16 cars. I figured it’s better for the show if there are more cars.’ He said, ‘Actually, Steve, we don’t care if you guys run, as long as the big guys do.’

That right there shows the arrogance of the current staff...if I was Peter Clifford...I'd be putting that attitude to rest right now.

How disappointing.....

If there is that level of arrogance with the folks in charge, then you need look no further in understanding why the sport is where it's at. Wow.......

Sean D

 

[CrewMan]

NHRA seems like they are trying to address the issue, Clifford has been making a lot of positive changes.

Yep...dead on Lance and I hope he continues.

 

[mick]

yeah if that is what was really said in denver that is pretty sad all the way around. going nowhere fast with that attitude.

 

[Mike]

To me, half of that article was on spot, the rest of it sounded like whining about not being able to financially race in a class above one's means.

I hope you weren't referring to me Lance. I was not whining! I was asked why is it harder for a lower budget team to compete and how do the penalties affect you. I explained it as I see it. Each additional car of a multi-car team subsidizes the rest and vice versa because all of the overhead is already in place. Take DSR for example. Adding an additional car does not take the full cost of what it would to start from scratch or even step up to the next level. The additional car only pays for their percentage of shop space etc. and you could take a portion of each of the other teams parts, crew etc. and have a team running in no time. Seeing as almost every single thing they need is in house makes it even easier. This is not whining, it is reality.

We have looked into going under the umbrella of several different teams in the past as it can be a more economical way to go about it from a cost only perspective. We decided that we did not want to do this because all you are doing is paying someone to get what you want. In the end though, you have NOTHING! This might be fine for some people, but that's not how we operate. We wanted to BUILD something and we are. We started in a 3 car garage where the front of the car was in a crawl space and the trailer was outside in the Chicago winter. Working on heads in the trailer when it's 10°F is not fun. Now we are in a 12,000 S.F. building which houses the car, trailer and body shop and it is all owned (mostly anyway). If things continue as we hope, maybe we'll be the next multi-car team that has everything they want and is complained about for winning all of the time! Had we chosen the other option, we would be DONE and have nothing except for the memories! Neither way is wrong. It just depends on what satisfies the individual(s) making the choice. I personally like to think that I'm giving it my best shot to make it the way I am. That's why we are all individuals!

 

[Just Paul]

Mike, I have a question for you, and I'll pick the US Nationals as my example.
In your case with the engine problems, do you think a pan pressure shut off would have caught any of your issues before things went really bad? I know that can't help a sudden catastrophic failure, but it can shut things down when things start to go sour.

I know some teams elect to run it on their own, most do not. How do you feel about instead of a getting monetary fine, you would be forced to run one after X amount of oil downs?? I guess the up side is no money to pay out, the down side being you could lose a potential good run if it's activated.

 

[Mike]

Mike, I have a question for you, and I'll pick the US Nationals as my example.
In your case with the engine problems, do you think a pan pressure shut off would have caught any of your issues before things went really bad? I know that can't help a sudden catastrophic failure, but it can shut things down when things start to go sour.

I know some teams elect to run it on their own, most do not. How do you feel about instead of a getting monetary fine, you would be forced to run one after X amount of oil downs?? I guess the up side is no money to pay out, the down side being you could lose a potential good run if it's activated.

The answer is yes and no. We have one on the car and it was operational for 2 of the 3 "incidents". On one it broke the crank (5th run on crank) and it shut it down but was no help as the damage was already done. On another, a clamp broke (or was not fully locked) and a burndown hose came off. It still worked but again, too late. It did probably keep it from being worse. On the last it was 'off' (eliminations). This was similar to the clamp incident except it burned the head gasket to the outside and sprayed oil. None of them was a complete disaster, although the broken crank wasn't pretty. We believe we have identified the root causes and are working to not have it happen again. What we do know is that our car is older than most and does not have the enhanced oil retention devices that most of the newer cars have. That's not to say it isn't protected, but most of the bigger teams have additional protections that help contain the oil should it get out. We felt it would have been fiscally unwise to have these made for our car at the time especially not knowing if they would transfer to a newer car. We had already dropped an additional event for this year in an effort to procure a newer car with these updated containment devices. We never though we would have 3 in one event. It happened and we have to deal with it. In hind sight the cost is probably a wash and we still need a newer car.

 

[Huge]

I don't want short fields either ... but seriously, does Terry McMillen really want us to believe that without the NHRA oil down fines he would be fielding a more competitive car? His statement about "it happens to everybody" is not necessarily factual. Event statistics will tell you that he, and a very few other teams, blow up far more often than most. In contrast, didn't Ron Capps just have his first oil down of the year in Charlotte? Others also may have only used their "freebie". Doesn't much of the blame need to fall upon the shoulders of McMillen and his crew. I know its not intentional, but this is not something new for his team over the years. Is $21,000 really the difference between being competitive (winning rounds) or not? He's frustrated, I get that.

I think its strictly the overall expense of racing that is hurting the sport, which the fines are a piece of. I am confident there are PROFESSIONAL drag teams out there that are so far over extended financially, that life after drag racing may not be kind to them. Reality is that this unfortunately has become a wealthy mans game which has been discussed here. Not all teams are owned / operated by wealthy people yet they have all the same trailers, cars, and motor coaches of the high $$ mega teams. The sport, at all levels, has become as much about playing the game (looking good and smelling good) as it has about fielding competitive races cars.

Little off topic, but sort of related ... why are National Event class quotas lower than ever in the sportsman ranks? Take a walk through the pits at a National or Divisional event ... everyone is towing 80 feet of stuff including a coach or stacker plus a trailer. You have Comp and Top Sportsman guys with 18 wheelers just like the Pro's. Tracks can only fit about 2/3 of what they used to be able to hold.

Like everything, it has gone uncontrolled for so long that it will be hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

If you think this is bad go look at all the toterhomes and stacker trailers at a Jr dragster race. By the way there are no freebie oil downs anymore. That went away this year.

 

[Toejam]

As much as we all love seeing low budget or independent racers out there, Sitting in the baking sun watching the safety safari clean up the track for 20-30 minutes (Or an Hour!) after multiple Oildowns get older than my father who been dead for years! NHRA instituted the Oildowns fines after the world finals one year 1999-2000? Not sure, but first round of TF/FC lasted over 2 hours and all the area newspapers like the Inland Valley bulletin and the Orange Co. Register, scolded NHRA about how sitting through all the clean-up was killing the sport... yada yada yada. Despite what anyone says, once the fines/penalties came into play, the downtime dropped instantly.

Now that Terry McMillan is the subject of discussion at Present, my question is... if Terry doesn't have the budget to run 23 races without spreading his parts inventory so thin, why not run 12-15 races?

 

[JB3]

As much as we all love seeing low budget or independent racers out there, Sitting in the baking sun watching the safety safari clean up the track for 20-30 minutes (Or an Hour!) after multiple Oildowns get older than my father who been dead for years! NHRA instituted the Oildowns fines after the world finals one year 1999-2000? Not sure, but first round of TF/FC lasted over 2 hours and all the area newspapers like the Inland Valley bulletin and the Orange Co. Register, scolded NHRA about how sitting through all the clean-up was killing the sport... yada yada yada. Despite what anyone says, once the fines/penalties came into play, the downtime dropped instantly.

Now that Terry McMillan is the subject of discussion at Present, my question is... if Terry doesn't have the budget to run 23 races without spreading his parts inventory so thin, why not run 12-15 races?

Agree 100% Joe !!
Ego would be my guess

 

[SoCal Racer]

Now that Terry McMillan is the subject of discussion at Present, my question is... if Terry doesn't have the budget to run 23 races without spreading his parts inventory so thin, why not run 12-15 races?

Sponsor commitments? I think most teams are contracted to make "X" number of races/appearances. Of course that could be renegotiated for future seasons....

 

[CrewMan]

Sitting in the baking sun watching the safety safari clean up the track for 20-30 minutes (Or an Hour!) after multiple Oildowns get older than my father who been dead for years! NHRA instituted the Oildowns fines after the world finals one year 1999-2000? Not sure, but first round of TF/FC lasted over 2 hours and all the area newspapers like the Inland Valley bulletin and the Orange Co. Register, scolded NHRA about how sitting through all the clean-up was killing the sport... yada yada yada.

I remember sitting through some pretty lengthy cleanups at National Trail & Indy a few times......most people I saw always went to the pits....and at least back then...I remember hearing Big Dave Mac on the loud speaker kind of suggesting to take a stroll if it was going to be a reallllly long one...and giving out the status and when they expected to be back up as it went along...but nowadays....hey let's just let someone moronic individual run out with a loud speaker trying to get everyone to scream for no reason and make noise during the cleanup......

I think I would rather watch the oil dry and gold dust go down over that

 

[yoda]

I remember sitting through some pretty lengthy cleanups at National Trail & Indy a few times......most people I saw always went to the pits....and at least back then...I remember hearing Big Dave Mac on the loud speaker kind of suggesting to take a stroll if it was going to be a reallllly long one...and giving out the status and when they expected to be back up as it went along...but nowadays....hey let's just let someone moronic individual run out with a loud speaker trying to get everyone to scream for no reason and make noise during the cleanup......

I think I would rather watch the oil dry and gold dust go down over that

Alan and the guys are pretty good about letting us know about ugly lengths... And any good fan knows a 5 minute boomer from a 40 minute boomer....

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

GREAT read, Thanks Tony for the link. I agree, 1) Drop all the fines. 2) Forget live broadcasts-give more turn around time. 3) Take some initiative, work on
better containment systems and, or, better/quicker clean up methods. Quit putting it all on the racer.

 

[*******]

Live coverage doesn't mean squat. Not one person that I know of gives a rats a$s if it's live or not. Actually live is worse because we get all the dead air wasting interviews with somebody while they are waiting on cars to get back. Play it back recorded in a condensed version without 30 shots of John Force on his scooter and give the teams time to turn the cars around safely. Need fill time for the people in the stands? Run the sportsman classes instead of hurrying them up and eliminating 80% of them before Saturday.