BIR - MNDOT inspections

[mick]

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag...ce-additional-dot-scrutiny-headed-to-brainerd
this state has got progressively worse within last few years.
pickups with small utility trailers are being stopped and told USDOT
registration is a must, not sure where it ends.

 

[clwill]

If its truly "educational" as they suggest, how about handing out flyers, or maybe set up a booth to answer questions, or that kind of thing. Stopping people is just a revenue thing, IMHO.

 

[DrRocket]

the Trans-Am series is coming to Brainerd on Labor Day weekend (I'll be a corner flag/communications worker, report to follow!) and I expect they'll probably be at the recieving end of this "education" thing as well. I'm hoping the SCCA is giving those competetors a heads-up.

 

[NCC250]

They started this a few years ago with the Haydays snowmobile race... Busted a ton of guys and most won't come back.. As said it would be nice if it was educational but they are gonna write some tickets...

 

[mw6789]

They started this a few years ago with the Haydays snowmobile race... Busted a ton of guys and most won't come back.. As said it would be nice if it was educational but they are gonna write some tickets...

"Education" as we all know is expensive. Revenue generation describes these actions much better. Just another free spending government agency grabbing for cash anywhere it can be found. Will only get worse in the future.

 

[.]

First, I must say, I am NOT defending the DOT! I have been a commercial driver for over 20 years and I have been pulled over and spot checked many times, and have received several equipment violations over the years. (nothing major) In fact, I got pulled over twice in one day! On the second stop, I asked if this would be considered "harassment" and they quickly sent me on my way. lol

In my eyes, the DOT here in Minnesota is not just specifically targeting the commercial vehicles involved in motorsports. They regularly sit just outside gravel pits and sand/rock quarries around the state pulling loaded trucks over to do spot inspections. Ask any dump truck, end dump, side dump, belly dump driver here and they will all tell you stories. Same thing happens near any major trucking hubs located throughout the state. They specifically target ALL types of trucks. One day it's gravel haulers, the next day it's medium duty landscape/lawn care trucks, enclosed semi trucks the next day, etc, etc. The only difference that I see between this situation and the DOT's regular operations is..... the racers got an advance warning this time. There are thousands of trucking companies here in Minnesota that deal with this on a daily basis with NO advanced warnings.

I towed a 22 wheeled belly dump semi off the highway yesterday for State Patrol that had been involved in an accident with a car. I towed it to our shop where the State Commercial Vehicle Inspector (CVI) did a full inspection. (standard operating procedure for any commercial vehicle that has been involved in an accident) The truck was almost 5000 pounds over weight and only 2 of the 6 trailer brakes were functioning properly. The driver was issued a hand full of tickets... some in his name, and some in the company name. From what I understand, the lady driving the car was lucky to have walked away from the crash. Scary stuff!

There is a need for the DOT CVI department, but I do agree that it has gotten out of control.

 

[.]

this state has got progressively worse within last few years.
pickups with small utility trailers are being stopped and told USDOT
registration is a must, not sure where it ends.

If the pickup and trailer are registered in a private name (not a business) AND their insurance policy is also in a private name, then it's not a commercial vehicle and none of the commercial motor vehicle laws apply. I know several guys who have tried to get around the commercial vehicle laws by driving light duty trucks that are registered in their own name, but they carry a commercial insurance policy. When they get pulled over, and the Trooper and/or CVI asks for proof of insurance, and they see it's a commercial policy.... now they are required to comply with all commercial motor vehicle laws that apply to that size/type of truck.

A friend of mine was pulled over while driving his Dodge one ton dually, pulling his own trailer with a Bobcat skid loader. Once the trooper saw that everything was registered in a private name (truck registration and insurance policy) the State Trooper sent him on his way. There was probably 10 violations that could have been written up on his truck that day, but it was not legally (by definition) a commercial vehicle so the Trooper couldn't do anything.

 

[.]

If the pickup and trailer are registered in a private name (not a business) AND their insurance policy is also in a private name, then it's not a commercial vehicle and none of the commercial motor vehicle laws apply.

Wrong.
And I will tell what my lawyer and accountant told me when we had a legal partnership.

It is no longer a private vehicle when you place commercial decals on your car for the explicit of reason (think contingency) of financial gain for, or are gaining an income based on the performance of that car/truck (think round money).

It is no longer a private tow vehicle when you are hauling another vehicle (race car, show car), for anything that you can gain income on other than the sale of that car.

 

[.]

Wrong.
And I will tell what my lawyer and accountant told me when we had a legal partnership.

It is no longer a private vehicle when you place commercial decals on your car for the explicit of reason (think contingency) of financial gain for, or are gaining an income based on the performance of that car/truck (think round money).

It is no longer a private tow vehicle when you are hauling another vehicle (race car, show car), for anything that you can gain income on other than the sale of that car.

No, the scenario I posted is NOT wrong. Can you please show me where I mentioned having company names and decals on the vehicle? Mike mentioned in post number one about pickup trucks with utility trailers being pulled over and being forced to comply with commercial vehicle laws. I took that as... "grandpa driving his 1/2 ton pickup, pulling a $399 utility trailer, while hauling his riding lawn mower to the cabin for the weekend." That is NOT a commercial vehicle!

Now, as for what you posted.... Yes, all of that is correct! But it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I knew the guy who restored the original 1969 Hawaiian funny car in 2007. The car made it's debut at the CHRR in Bakersfield that year. He hauled the car to California with his personal truck and enclosed trailer. Somewhere along the way he was stopped by DOT and everything was fine (because both truck and insurance was in his personal name and no decals anywhere) until they asked to see inside the trailer..... The first thing they saw was the Pennzoil decal on the side of the car and they immediately wanted to know how much Pennzoil was paying him to have that decal on there. Once he explained it was a "restored" car and that it had been over 35 yeas since Pennzoil had payed anything for that decal, they let him go.

 

[.]

No, the scenario I posted is NOT wrong. Can you please show me where I mentioned having company names and decals on the vehicle? Mike mentioned in post number one about pickup trucks with utility trailers being pulled over and being forced to comply with commercial vehicle laws. I took that as... "grandpa driving his 1/2 ton pickup, pulling a $399 utility trailer, while hauling his riding lawn mower to the cabin for the weekend." That is NOT a commercial vehicle!

Now, as for what you posted.... Yes, all of that is correct! But it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I knew the guy who restored the original 1969 Hawaiian funny car in 2007. The car made it's debut at the CHRR in Bakersfield that year. He hauled the car to California with his personal truck and enclosed trailer. Somewhere along the way he was stopped by DOT and everything was fine (because both truck and insurance was in his personal name and no decals anywhere) until they asked to see inside the trailer..... The first thing they saw was the Pennzoil decal on the side of the car and they immediately wanted to know how much Pennzoil was paying him to have that decal on there. Once he explained it was a "restored" car and that it had been over 35 yeas since Pennzoil had payed anything for that decal, they let him go.

All of which has nothing to do with the current issue.
Hell, I would have been more appropriate had I told you about taking my grandpa's boat to some lake by Brainard than what you spent time to type about.

 

[cephus]

welcome 2 the real world guys and the CSA crap, its gonna get worse, the big companies helped rite the new rules and want 2 put the little guys out of buisiness, u will soon c on board recorders and electronic logs, its all bout money and they claim its safety and is not,, no supportive evidence
the federal and state governments need money and will get somehow

little guy gets screwd again !!!!!

 

[.]

All of which has nothing to do with the current issue.

Yeah, it does. The THREAD STARTER, the guy who sets the topic of a thread, mentioned pickups and utility trailers being pulled over by MNDOT in post number one. His comment was an example to show how far out of control the MNDOT has become. I responded to his post. At that point the thread was completely on topic. I didn't post about "grandpa's truck" until I had to draw you a picture as to why my post was NOT wrong.

I'm done.

 

[nitronoise]

yes yes Minnesota taking a page of calif's playbook , you think they would have learned their lesson after The OOIDA sued them for the " Driver Fatigue" and fittnes for duty scam about 2 years ago.

 

[Jude]

Wrong.
And I will tell what my lawyer and accountant told me when we had a legal partnership.

It is no longer a private vehicle when you place commercial decals on your car for the explicit of reason (think contingency) of financial gain for, or are gaining an income based on the performance of that car/truck (think round money).

It is no longer a private tow vehicle when you are hauling another vehicle (race car, show car), for anything that you can gain income on other than the sale of that car.

I think your accountant may well be mistaken. There are numerous precedents in tax court showing that a racer who goes to 8-10 races per year and who doesn't generate a substantial portion of there income from racing activities is considered a hobby as far as the IRS is concerned, regardless of how many contingency stickers you may display.

The problem is that we have two government agencies with opposing viewpoints operating in two different worlds, who trumps whom. The DOT says you may make money, therefore you are a commercial enterprise and must follow the FMCSA and DOT regulations; and The IRS says you don't make the majority of your income from racing and therefore your racing is a hobby and not a commercial enterprise for profit.

 

[Jeff]

This is a tough area, two people parked next to each other driving identical rigs with identical contents may not have the same intentions and may not be subject to the same rules.

It is important to know the rules so you can defend your position (or understand your situation). All states must follow the Federal Motor Carrier's code/regulations in order to get federal highway funding.

Section 390.3(f)(3) includes the following EXCEPTION to the applicability of this code: "The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise."

The person next to you may be in a commercial enterprise, but by no means is every sportsman racer who enters a NHRA divisional or national event carrying on a commercial enterprise.

So no, everyone does not have to get a CDL .... but (using Texas terms) your basic "class C" driver's license (the one you got when you were 16) probably won't work either. I carry a "class A exempt" (essentially able to drive any weight rig with any weight trailer for personal purposes) and I generally have no problems.

Nobody knows all of the rules (including several DOT officers), but if you demonstrate that you know and follow the rules applicable to you, and you are not rude to the inquisitive officer, you will hopefully have no problems.

 

[clwill]

I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating.

If you don't sticker up your rig, have it all registered in your name personally, scrupulously obey all the traffic laws (including reasonable speed, signaling for everything, and so on), are a very courteous driver (give truckers a lot of room, flash them in when they are passing you, etc.), and drive right past all the weigh stations like you know what you're doing, you will likely never get stopped. Remember truckers will chatter all over the CB if you are flying along or being a jerk, and you'll attract attention.

If you do get stopped, the answer is to be the nicest human being that officer ever met. Explain that you're just headed to the race track for a little fun, laugh when he asks you if you race for money ("I hear rumors that some people do, but for me, officer it's way more out-go than in-come "), and answer every question with a smile. I've been pulled over once in Iowa (which they say is terrible) and he was ever so gracious -- we were on our way in 5 minutes.

Like most of the time, if you're a jerk not only are you miserable but there are bunch of other people willing to help make you even more so.

 

[FABMAN]

Yeah, it does. The THREAD STARTER, the guy who sets the topic of a thread, mentioned pickups and utility trailers being pulled over by MNDOT in post number one. His comment was an example to show how far out of control the MNDOT has become. I responded to his post. At that point the thread was completely on topic. I didn't post about "grandpa's truck" until I had to draw you a picture as to why my post was NOT wrong.

I'm done.

Brian, good information for the racers coming to Minn.

Greg Moon, you're the most argumentative person, every post you put on Nitro is negative towards that person. Life is too short for that, work on it.

 

[mw6789]

I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating.

If you don't sticker up your rig, have it all registered in your name personally, scrupulously obey all the traffic laws (including reasonable speed, signaling for everything, and so on), are a very courteous driver (give truckers a lot of room, flash them in when they are passing you, etc.), and drive right past all the weigh stations like you know what you're doing, you will likely never get stopped. Remember truckers will chatter all over the CB if you are flying along or being a jerk, and you'll attract attention.

If you do get stopped, the answer is to be the nicest human being that officer ever met. Explain that you're just headed to the race track for a little fun, laugh when he asks you if you race for money ("I hear rumors that some people do, but for me, officer it's way more out-go than in-come "), and answer every question with a smile. I've been pulled over once in Iowa (which they say is terrible) and he was ever so gracious -- we were on our way in 5 minutes.

Like most of the time, if you're a jerk not only are you miserable but there are bunch of other people willing to help make you even more so.

I used to do 15 or 16 Super Chevy Shows and swap meets each year with my Chevy parts business. In the early 90's after hearing horror stories about friends in the same business getting stopped, hauled back to the scales, and written expensive tickets, I decided to go ahead and get a USDOT number. I placed a call to the Arkansas Highway Police (our state DOT enforcement) and was paid a visit by their representative who issued me a DOT number. He was a state employee, but was funded by the USDOT under a program to bring businesses into compliance. He told me that ANY vehicle with 10,001 lb GVW (as indicated by the sticker on the door of the vehicle) that operated COMMERCIALLY (attempting to make a profit) fell under the guidelines of the USDOT and had to comply with the same regulations as the semi trucks running up and down the highway---health card, log books, service records, and yes, stopping at the scales. He looked at my rig (a new Chevy crew cab dually and 28 foot enclosed UNLETTERED trailer) and told me that in all honesty with a rig like mine, most scalehouses probably would not look twice if you just drove by. He did say, however, if the trailer was lettered up with "Bill and Bob's Racing Team sponsored by Pennzoil" it would probably get a second look. I was also told the business name and USDOT number was required to be on the truck. When I told him the truck was also used for personal reasons, I was told a magnetic sign would be acceptable, but the sign must be in place when being operated commercially. This vehicle and trailer was in my personal name and insured personally---not in a company name. I was also told that racing was considered a commercial venture, since you were competing for cash prizes and technically attempting to make a profit (even though few do). He also stressed to me that these were FEDERAL mandates with the enforcement burdens placed on the states to enforce them. Most of the time, I drove right by the scales and was never chased down and hauled back, but I have friends with rigs just like mine that were chased down and taken back to the scales. State of Texas sat up outside the Motorplex once during a points meet and wrote a bunch of tickets (customer of mine was a unhappy recipient of one)--mostly to rigs exactly like mine. Bottom line is just to be safe, check with your state DOT and get the RIGHT answers and be prepared. As Chris stated, be nice, but also be prepared.

 

[clwill]

I have this printed out and placed in my glove box:

Interpretation for 390.3: - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Note carefully question 21:

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the ‘‘occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise’’ apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

Nothing is a sure thing, but having this in your hands could help.

 

[theraceman]

2 people have told me that the MNDOT is set-up at the wayside rest on hwy 371. It is just south of Brainerd. I guess there were rigs pulled in (didnt hear what size, or how many) and one had the ramp door down and was being inspected.