10,000HP fuel cars? (1 Viewer)

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From dragracingonline.com:
The agent ran into SFI major domo Arnie Kunz at the recently completed SEMA and during the course of conversation the honorable Mr. Kunz told the agent that the SFI was still working on new specs for Top Fuel chassis. That in itself wasn’t news but Kunz telling the agent that two separate engineering studies had shown that Top Fuel engines develop in excess of 10,000hp was sure an eye opener.

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I remember reading something a couple years back about one of the Kalitta cars getting a measurement of just under 10,000HP when the clutch welded together early on a pass. I also remember something in National Dragster about 5 years ago that they were getting similar numbers on Bill Millers top fuel car. I think the evidence is starting to point to much more power than the current 7000-8000hp we've been hearing about.

 

[Harry Mannback]

How do they measure that anyway? Is there a dyno in the land that is set up for or can handle a top fuel motor? The 10,000 hp mark does not surprise me, it impresses me to no end however. To this day the most amazing thing to me is the ability to get that 10,000 HP to hook up. Making HP is one thing, using it is another.

Dan

 

[Mooseman]

they work it out by figuring out how much horsepower is needed to move something of that weight across a quarter mile in how ever many seconds they are running

 

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they work it out by figuring out how much horsepower is needed to move something of that weight across a quarter mile in how ever many seconds they are running

Nope, they use transducers mounted on the chasis to measure it. In the National Dragster article I read a few years ago Bill Miller said they were essentially the same tranducers that are used on large cranes to measure the load.

 

[Mooseman]

Oh ok so that's how they measure it .

 

[sharkman]

When I worked for the Bus Company we had a big Go Power Dyno that could handle 8,000 HP BUT it would no way go to 8,000 or 9,000 RPM. When we bought it they demonstrated it with a "specially prepared" 399 Caterpillar V-16, it would stall it from 2100 RPM, pretty impressive, but not 10,000 HP and not 8500 RPM. Nitro is amazing stuff especially when you consider 500ci, but as with any internal combustion engine, the more power you bring to the party the shorter the party will last.

 

[Rollout96]

but as with any internal combustion engine, the more power you bring to the party the shorter the party will last.

LMAO!!!! I love it. Truer words were never spoken!!

 

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I remember the article in the National Dragster about Doug Kalitta’s car. On the cover of the dragster , in big numbers, it said 7933 HP. The article said Connie put a “Strain Gauge” on the drive shaft (or did it say “reverser” shaft, I cant remember) When a strain gauge “deflects” it converts that deflection into a number that can be used to calculate load. In this case it gives the crew chief a torque number. Once you have a torque number and know the rpm the torque measurement was taken at (which should be easy with the onboard data acquisition computer on a fuel car) you can figure HP. Torque X RPM / 5252 = HP. In the Dragster article it said Doug Kalitta’s car made 7933 HP at 2.6 seconds into the run. (I think it said 2.6 sec… I’m going from memory) Keep in mind, If Doug would have smoked the tires on that run the torque numbers would have fallen off the charts to near zero. A strain gauge on a car can only measure the amount of power actually being put to the ground through the tires. If the track and rear tires were made from Velcro and you could guarantee 100% traction those torque numbers “could” be higher if the engine was capable of making more power. With that said, I’m NO engineer but the way I see it and the way I understand a nitro engine works, If you have more “load” (in this case better traction) you can burn more fuel, with more fuel the engine makes more power, especially in a nitro engine because nitro carries it’s own oxygen.

So in my opinion….. I don’t have a problem believing a nitro engine is capable of making 10,000 HP. In fact, I’d bet it could be even higher than 10,000!! (if the internal engine parts could handle it)

Disclaimer: I don’t own a nitro car, I’ve never worked on a nitro car (that may change soon) and I certainly don’t claim to be an expert, this is just the way I see it and I could be dead wrong. I’m sure if something I’ve posted is wrong someone will correct me.

 

[Mooseman]

where would you get one of these strain gauges?

 

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where would you get one of these strain gauges?

I’m not sure.

I think they come in all shapes, sizes and load capabilities. Do a google search you should be able to find something.

 

[Mooseman]

Cool Ill have to search around for some.

 

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I remember the article in the National Dragster about Doug Kalitta’s car. On the cover of the dragster , in big numbers, it said 7933 HP.

That must have been the article I read too. I do remember one line in the article describing a momentary peak of just under 10,000HP when the clutch welded together. Obviously that peak didn't last long but the fact it went that high for even a split-second is incredible.

 

[Darryl]

One thing that I find amazing about nitro engines is that by estimate they only burn about 30% of the load inside the engine. The rest is burned in the pipes and results in those huge header flames we know and love. Can you imagine what would happen if that usable percentage ever could be increased.

 

[partsman]

It sure is amazing that they make 8-10,000 HP. But realize that they will rarely get it all applied to the track. That's why they use up a multi dollar 5 disc clutch every pass.

 

[cstarns]

It sure is amazing that they make 8-10,000 HP. But realize that they will rarely get it all applied to the track. That's why they use up a multi dollar 5 disc clutch every pass.

5 disc??????

 

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5 disc??????

I think they're all using 5 discs. I've never heard of a 6 and I don't think anybody is trying to use the old 4 disc setup.

 

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I seem to remember the buzz around the pit’s a few years ago when Tony Schumacher’s crew started to back the dragster into their pit space instead of pulling it in forward like everyone else. The rumor was….. They didn’t want anyone to see the experimental 6 disk clutch they were trying.

 

[Moritz Guy]

The HP produced is calculated based on the fuel flow during the run.

Most fuelers make more than enough power. Geting it to the track is the key.

Not a lot of R&D $$ spent on making more ponies. Making them more effeciently or easier on parts maybe.

Pretty easy to measure the nitro percent before it actually goes into the car though. LOL

The clutch is pretty interesting. The floaters are toast during 1 lap. You see them carried off regularly by fans. Most use 4 floaters 5 clutch discs. the flywheel and pressure plate have an equivalent floater built on that is resurfaced after every lap. The actual clutch disc is generally used twice. 3 new and 2 with 1 lap in the clutch pack.

Lesser sponsored teams will use them a bit more.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

As I stated a long time ago - a friend who participated in the SWIFT (Spinning Wheel Integrated Force Transducer) tests on Kalitta car stated that there were some "surprising" horsepower results. As in over 9000 hp. Kalitta Team, Weld Wheels and S.W.I.F.T. put a lot of effort into these tests. To my knowledge, this is the only test using multiple sensors and a very sophisticated data gathering system to gather scientific results. Each run produced gigabytes of data. NHRA displayed absolutely no interest in the results - perhaps because they didn't want to know.
IMHO - Attempts to back into horsepower numbers via fuel flow or a single strain transducer are simply SWAGs.

 

[Outlaw Eric]

LMAO!!!! I love it. Truer words were never spoken!!

Reminds me of the saying:

Go first class, just not very often...