What's the track like? I've never been there and never considered going there until they moved the race back a couple of months. I remember on the off chance that it wasn't unbearable the cars ran pretty good. Plane fares to St.Louis seem cheaper than other spring venues, and it looks like a fairly nice facility on TV.
Nitromater
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St. Louis race
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Brian, St. Louis is a very good race track, for the racers. Paved pits, nice and level, great track surface, lots of shut down, etc. Not too bad for the fans either, as long as it's not late May-August. But, it is located next to a landfill and sometimes if the wind blows from the wrong direction the air can get kinda raw. Also, fan parking is not on-site, it's actually across the highway from the race track. (They use shuttle buses). I don't know how the food compares to the other national event tracks because I've never eaten there. As far as hotel accomodations, you have the City of St. Louis and Collinsville, IL. Get'em early or you'll have to drive a ways each day.
I actually like the place better than most of the other national event facilities, and I've seen them all. As I'm sure you know, a racer friendly place can flat put up the numbers. Now if they would just let the locals prep the track, the numbers would be even better.
Regards,
Pat
I actually like the place better than most of the other national event facilities, and I've seen them all. As I'm sure you know, a racer friendly place can flat put up the numbers. Now if they would just let the locals prep the track, the numbers would be even better.
Regards,
Pat
Thanks for the info Pat, it sounds like with the schedule changes they made this could be one of the better races next year. I'm not sure if St. Louis and Memphis are still night races, it would probably make more sense to have Norwalk and Maple Grove at night, because they inherited the hot weekends but that's just my opinion.
BaldyLochs
Nitro Member
The heat was always crazy there. I'm glad the dates got moved for everyone's sake. Now it looks like Denver remains the sizzler track. It just adds insult to injury; not only are you a mile high, but with hot sun giving you 100 degree temps all day the corrected altitude can be 10-12,000 feet.
Kelly Andersen
Nitro Member
It does not matter if its may its still gets hot there.I did 6 races there last year and it was hot for everyone. adrl easter weekend HOT, world ford challenge HOT, nhra nationals HOT, and it was hot for the others also. Its always warm there.
BlueStangGT
Nitro Member
Yep, it can be one hot mofo there nearly anytime after April 1. At least in early May there's a chance of the weather being mild.
You mentioned Easter... There used to be the coolest car show in a park near midtown every Easter. Anyone know if they still have it?
Yes, BOTH of them are still there in Forest Park which was built specifically for the 1904 World's Fair.
The original show is run by the Horseless Carriage Club of America, and always catered to vintage cars. Ten or so years ago they allowed original sports cars & musclecars.
The street rod guys felt left out since their entries were always refused and started their own show.
The original show is on the parking lot above the Muny - the Municipal Opera open-air theater.
The other show is on a lot just below.
Though the weather can be shaky, it's a great way to spend a day. There are some serious cars every year in each show. Be sure to go early because if you wait until midday the park is jammed and parking is impossible without a pretty good hike. That's not necessarily a bad thing as Forest Park is very cool with lots of things to look at and beautiful grounds.
It's the location for the St Louis Zoo (remember Marlon Perkins and his Mutual of Omaha show?) along with a great art museum specializing in German Impressionism and pre-Columbus Indian art. There are also an 18 hole golf course and tennis courts open to the public. If you're there at the right time, you might be able to see a polo match or some very good rugby.
Finally, the north edge of the park has Lindell Avenue as its boundary. On about a 8 block stretch, there are some of the most amazing mansions I've ever seen - most built in the early 1900s before income tax when rich people were RICH.
/travelogue, now returning you to the previously scheduled progam.
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I remember a few years ago, NHRA made the St. Louis race a night race. Attendance was probably the Best it has been, then for some reason it went back to Days where it's in the high 90's?. Nascar does what it can to give the fans a break from the Summer heat, why can't NHRA? Indy and Maybe Dallas are the only Summer races I'll attend.
Johnny Mopar
Nitro Member
Summer Drags
Great point Joe...I've always wondered why NHRA schedules races in St. Louis, Denver and Memphis during the hottest and most humid times of the year. Besides the challenge of racing in those conditions, they limit themselves in attendance and revenue by scheduling races when they do. I would recommend they consider a near overhaul of their schedule...based on weather, not travel convenience. NASCAR has mastered this process...NHRA would be well served to do the same.
Great point Joe...I've always wondered why NHRA schedules races in St. Louis, Denver and Memphis during the hottest and most humid times of the year. Besides the challenge of racing in those conditions, they limit themselves in attendance and revenue by scheduling races when they do. I would recommend they consider a near overhaul of their schedule...based on weather, not travel convenience. NASCAR has mastered this process...NHRA would be well served to do the same.
BlueStangGT
Nitro Member
Thanks for the info, I couldn't remember the name of the park off the top of my head. I spent a couple of years in St. Louis for work and I was unable to get home on Easter in 2000 so I went to the Hot Rod show. The weather was unbelievably nice and the people there (both displaying and spectating) were an absolute pleasure to be around that day. I think we were all so amazed at the perfect weather we couldn't help but be in a great mood! There was a guy with a near-perfect original Hemi Dart (66-67?) and a backwards-forwards drag car (GTO maybe) was a real hoot. There was also a guy from Illinois (Alton, I think) with an A/Gas Henry J that was very cool. I took some pics but have no clue where to find them now. Maybe Bret Kepner will wander through this thread and shed some light on the owners of those cars, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut he knows 'em.
I'm sure Bret would know - an amazing memory - but I haven't seen him here lately.
None of the cars ring a bell.
As for the backwards car thing, there was a guy here called Hollie who was known for building those. The weirdest was his Backup Pickup, which was an early Econoline pickup. Very strange, watching it wheelie down the track backward with the bed in the air. I bet he had something to do with the GTO.
The Dart I don't remember but the heavy hitter Mopar guys around here were Dedman & McCormick. They had a number of Hemi Cudas and Hemi Dusters.
There were a bunch of Gas cars, so who knows on the Henry J. One car I always wondered about but always forget to ask Kepner about was the "Old Crow". It raced at Pacific and Alton and was a dead ringer for the original Ramchargers car. Same ugly-azz business coupe, same straight axle, same cutouts in the front fenders for the exhaust. I've always wondered whether it was the same car.
This thread is now officially highjacked.
Johnny Mopar
Nitro Member
HEMI Dart
The 'near perfect original HEMI Dart' doesn't ring a bell as a local St. Louis car. The are some clones of the original '68 Hurst HEMI Darts that'll show up at Car Shows, but none that are original in condition and authenticity that I've ever seen. A friend of mine (here in the St. Louis area) has Jack Werst's "Mr 5 / 50" lightweight '65 Belvedere under total restoration right now. He's had it at occasional shows in it's current, unrestored condition. It's one of the original factory cars, and in amazing condition...right down to the gear selector on the steering column displaying the gear selections in reverse order...from the original reverse manual valve body in the torqueflight. That's the coolest piece on the car if you ask me!
The 'near perfect original HEMI Dart' doesn't ring a bell as a local St. Louis car. The are some clones of the original '68 Hurst HEMI Darts that'll show up at Car Shows, but none that are original in condition and authenticity that I've ever seen. A friend of mine (here in the St. Louis area) has Jack Werst's "Mr 5 / 50" lightweight '65 Belvedere under total restoration right now. He's had it at occasional shows in it's current, unrestored condition. It's one of the original factory cars, and in amazing condition...right down to the gear selector on the steering column displaying the gear selections in reverse order...from the original reverse manual valve body in the torqueflight. That's the coolest piece on the car if you ask me!
BlueStangGT
Nitro Member
If I remember right the backwards / forwards car I saw is 2 front clips put together, I probably should've phrased it better. Now I'm going to have to go searching for those damn pic files!
BlueStangGT
Nitro Member
I got a reply back from Bret on another site.
The backwards / forwards thing is indeed a complete, "normal" body mounted backwards on a frame and is called the Burgundy Baron. He also said he knows of 3 Hemi Darts in the STL area. I'll try to dig through some old CD's and see if I can find where I archived those pics.
The backwards / forwards thing is indeed a complete, "normal" body mounted backwards on a frame and is called the Burgundy Baron. He also said he knows of 3 Hemi Darts in the STL area. I'll try to dig through some old CD's and see if I can find where I archived those pics.
Bill
Nitro Member
Tom,
There is, or was... I'm not sure if he's still around... a racer in St. Louis who ran Olds-powered Gassers back in the late '50s/early '60s whose name was/is "Wayne Artega." Wayne built a assortment of Gassers with a partner, whose last name was "Helmuth," I believe (can't remember his first name.)
One of these cars was a green Henry J, but they elected to run C/Altered with that car, so, the engine was located 25-percent back, rather than the requisite 10-percent for a Gas Coupe.
I lived in St. Louis for about 6 months in 1961, but I don't think that car had been built yet, as I went to the drags across the river at Alton, IL several times while living there, and never saw it. Now that I think about it, I seem to remember a magazine article (Popular Hot Rod?) that showed the engine in that car with a Potvin, front-mounted blower on it at one time. That would have taken it out of C/Altered. Back then, the addition of a blower moved you up one class... but that changed in about 1965, I think.
In about 1963, I built a Chevy-powered Henry J for C/Gas with a partner (Bobby Roper), and discovered that the way those cars are configured, the 10-percent engine setback that was allowed for Gassers (measured from the centerline of the front spindle to the #1 sparkplug hole) placed the front of the cylinder head directly under the base of the windshield... that's how far back the front wheels are on those cars. Without an engine cover, the distributor was directly across from the driver's belt-line! I could reac over and turn the distributor for more timing from the driver's seat!!! LOL!
The engine in that Artega car was back, yet another 15-inches (Henry J's have a 100-inch wheelbase, so even ~I~ can do the math on that one!!!)
Admittely, it LOOKED, from the outside, exactly like a Gas Coupe, but it ran C/Altered with a 345-inch Olds, I am pretty sure.
Hope this helps.... You might find something about it by Googling "Artega-Helmuth", dunno...
Are you guitar player? I am. Saw your pic at the bottom, and wondered about that Strat... (or, what LOOKS like a Strat.)
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas.
There is, or was... I'm not sure if he's still around... a racer in St. Louis who ran Olds-powered Gassers back in the late '50s/early '60s whose name was/is "Wayne Artega." Wayne built a assortment of Gassers with a partner, whose last name was "Helmuth," I believe (can't remember his first name.)
One of these cars was a green Henry J, but they elected to run C/Altered with that car, so, the engine was located 25-percent back, rather than the requisite 10-percent for a Gas Coupe.
I lived in St. Louis for about 6 months in 1961, but I don't think that car had been built yet, as I went to the drags across the river at Alton, IL several times while living there, and never saw it. Now that I think about it, I seem to remember a magazine article (Popular Hot Rod?) that showed the engine in that car with a Potvin, front-mounted blower on it at one time. That would have taken it out of C/Altered. Back then, the addition of a blower moved you up one class... but that changed in about 1965, I think.
In about 1963, I built a Chevy-powered Henry J for C/Gas with a partner (Bobby Roper), and discovered that the way those cars are configured, the 10-percent engine setback that was allowed for Gassers (measured from the centerline of the front spindle to the #1 sparkplug hole) placed the front of the cylinder head directly under the base of the windshield... that's how far back the front wheels are on those cars. Without an engine cover, the distributor was directly across from the driver's belt-line! I could reac over and turn the distributor for more timing from the driver's seat!!! LOL!
The engine in that Artega car was back, yet another 15-inches (Henry J's have a 100-inch wheelbase, so even ~I~ can do the math on that one!!!)
Admittely, it LOOKED, from the outside, exactly like a Gas Coupe, but it ran C/Altered with a 345-inch Olds, I am pretty sure.
Hope this helps.... You might find something about it by Googling "Artega-Helmuth", dunno...
Are you guitar player? I am. Saw your pic at the bottom, and wondered about that Strat... (or, what LOOKS like a Strat.)
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas.
BlueStangGT
Nitro Member
Wow, this thread's a blast from the past. I never did find that CD with the pics but I'll make a renewed effort over the holidays.
Cool info, Bill... thanks for chiming in. Ya know this is twice that the name Dedman has appeared in this thread... are you any relation to the "Dedman & McCormick" mentioned earlier by Dan Bennett?
On the guitar thing... nope, I'm not a player but a seller of all things musical (nearly). That particular Strat is one that I had some custom artwork done for an acquaintance of mine, not sure if it's still getting played or not.
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