Similar incident earlier this year??? (1 Viewer)

[Meeks]

Please delete this if you feel it is not necessary to be talked about...

I decided to read the Kalitta blog on NHRA to see if there were any other pictures of Scott I could look at and this one posting really got my attention. On the February 9th posting they discuss an incident that happened with Scott when he ended up in the sand...this is what it says:

As I am also sure that you folks have been well informed by NHRA.com, you know that Scott Kalitta and the DHL Toyota Solara Funny Car team began the 2008 quarter-mile season with great news that was quickly, and I do mean quickly, followed by “uh-oh” news. On his first lap down the track in competition this year, Scott drove the DHL flopper through the timers at 4.818 seconds to take the provisional Funny Car pole, which at the time of this typing is still the mark to beat Saturday morning.

After Scott went through the lights, that’s when the cheering stopped and the wild ride began for the wily nitro veteran. There were problems with the parachute levers an, as I am sure you’re also very aware, Funny Cars are greatly aided by “hitting the silks” in the process of stopping their 320-mph mission. When one ‘chute finally did open, it was too late for Scott, who had been pulling the handbrake with all of his might, to get the DHL car slowed down enough to make the turn off of the race track and into the sand trap he went. We all kidded Scott that since he lives in Florida, he was simply accustomed to the “beach” and wanted to return there. He didn’t really think that was very funny, but I did, and I’m typing…sorry Scott. Since the team had a spare body already ready in the race rig, the search began for a spare for the spare. A back-up for the back-up was quickly secured from another team, but after a fitting attempt was made to see if Tab A would fit into Slot B, a new plan was hatched to breathe new life into what was thought to be a bright yellow carcass because the third-string body did not mount correctly.

I know that this case is different in the fact that there was not an explosion but everything else is pretty close the same....
How can we make these cars safer in slowing down? Is there different brakes that can be made, or better chute systems? What are your guys ideas? I know that making the tracks longer is virtually an impossible task because of numerous different reasons but just like all the rest of us, I'm tired of having to deal with losing racers if there is anyway we can help to prevent it.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

I think most everyone would pretty much agree that when the chutes come out properly, and on time, everything usually goes well. That being said, I would be cool with a sensor or something in the lights that triggers the parachutes for the drivers. I'm talking on every pass, not just ones where there appears to be trouble, because by the time trouble is identified, it's too late. Let the drivers go through the motions of triggering their own chutes like they're accustomed to, but if for some reason their hands aren't free, which I could see with funny cars, especially, the chutes will still be triggered by the sensor. Will that take care of tangled chutes? No, but at least they'll be triggered on time, every time.

Then you'll have to deal with the fire issue. I know I've come across some other posts on all of these other threads that talks about the materials of the chutes, but to be quite honest, I've read through all of them so many times, my brain is kinda' fried. The bottom line is, I'm sure there is some progress that can be made with the chutes themselves to better deal with fire, and if that can happen along with making sure the chutes get triggered on time, I think that would be a huge move in the right direction.

Just my .02.

Sean D

 

[Mr. Fix It]

That sensor thing controling the chutes is a cool idea. Any engineering types out there that might think of a reason that would be unsafe? Don't know if would have helped with the latest accident, but I think it is a good idea.

 

[Ugly one]

The chutes were out as soon as the body came apart. But when you have tangled laundry your not going to stop. How many cars have ended up in the beach this year, not because the chutes weren't out, but because they were tangled? Not trying to point fingers, it's just another area to address at some point in time.

 

[Ken]

The pass that you are talking about was different. I am relying on memory which is not always a good thing. I believe that the chute levers were out of his reach. This was corrected when they mounted the new body prior to the next pass. I am all for making improvements for overall safety.

 

[Cymon Sez]

How about taking it one step further.

Monster trucks have a team standing by watching the trucks to make sure one doesn't run into the stands. In the event of wild ride they can and have disabled the electrical system on the truck effectively stopping it.

Now is where it gets a little different.

RC cars(mostly nitro cars) have servos that control the throttle and brake in the event it loses radio signal or power it automatically returns to a predetermined state(most people set them to apply the brakes)

Why not take that technology and apply it to Top Fuel and Funny Car. When the driver passes the lights, sensors on the track automatically disable the ignition and apply the brakes(ABS of course). In the event of a unconscious driver this would effectively bring the car to a stop and do away with runaway cars. On short tracks it could also help with the dreaded late chutes.

Food for thought.

 

[john]

Good ideas, but these devices would have to survive a violent explosion like what we saw Saturday to be effective, that may be the tricky part.

 

[ozfuel]

Put it inside the Ford "blue box".

Mark.

 

[cstarns]

How about taking it one step further.

Monster trucks have a team standing by watching the trucks to make sure one doesn't run into the stands. In the event of wild ride they can and have disabled the electrical system on the truck effectively stopping it.

Now is where it gets a little different.

RC cars(mostly nitro cars) have servos that control the throttle and brake in the event it loses radio signal or power it automatically returns to a predetermined state(most people set them to apply the brakes)

Why not take that technology and apply it to Top Fuel and Funny Car. When the driver passes the lights, sensors on the track automatically disable the ignition and apply the brakes(ABS of course). In the event of a unconscious driver this would effectively bring the car to a stop and do away with runaway cars. On short tracks it could also help with the dreaded late chutes.

Food for thought.

Nitro cars can keep running and making power without the mags on via compression ignition. I'm not too sure that I would be comfortable with the brakes being activated automatically. There are too many times that drivers gave to avoid cars and debris that comes into their lane.

 

[Cymon Sez]

In regards to the motor firing off of the compression, yes your correct it will still fire then you have the system disengage the clutch instead. As for the brakes of course these setting could be over ridden if the driver has the ability to do so.

There are so many ways this could be implemented into the "Blue Box" via backup power and redundant systems.

The technology is available.

 

[.]

Good ideas, but these devices would have to survive a violent explosion like what we saw Saturday to be effective, that may be the tricky part.

They've got electronics that will will withstand hundreds of G's (think missle guidance and "black boxes"), it wouldn't be a problem making something strong enough.

 

[john]

They've got electronics that will will withstand hundreds of G's (think missle guidance and "black boxes"), it wouldn't be a problem making something strong enough.

You still need something to pressurize the brakes or deploy the chute. Neither of these will fit into the black box with the electronics and still work. If the brake lines or parachute are blown off the car in an explosion, they won't work. It is not an easy fix.

 

[clwill]

Why put the complexity, expense, inspection, and maintenance burdens in each and every car? Especially since you can't guarantee that, even if the laundry does come out, it will work?

Remember, if you do this right, you want it to work not just for fuel cars but for every class, every car that runs over, say 150mph. Who wants sportsman racers to die? And what about bikes?

As I said in another thread, we don't need to worry about slowing down every car, only those that can't slow down themselves. A sophisticated, robust, electronic parachute system adds cost, maintenance, inspections, etc. for hundreds, or thousands of teams.

Why not invest the time, science, and cost in the track? A sophisticated combination of trap, nets, and barriers could stop completely incapacitated cars and drivers in any class. And you only have to do it for 22 tracks around the country (perhaps a few dozen more if you go to the LODRS tracks).

 

[CrewGuy]

You still need something to pressurize the brakes or deploy the chute. Neither of these will fit into the black box with the electronics and still work. If the brake lines or parachute are blown off the car in an explosion, they won't work. It is not an easy fix.

Employ an over-pressure switch in the manifold, that when activated, would send a signal to two solenoids. Wire a solenoid to the chutes and another to a fuel shutoff valve plumbed in the fuel line. When the blower pops, you lose the fuel and chutes are automatically deployed.

 

[clwill]

Employ an over-pressure switch in the manifold, that when activated, would send a signal to two solenoids. Wire a solenoid to the chutes and another to a fuel shutoff valve plumbed in the fuel line. When the blower pops, you lose the fuel and chutes are automatically deployed.

So you still have a rolling fireball that has burned up the chutes and is going 250+mph... Seems that you still need good trap/nets/barriers.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

You still need something to pressurize the brakes or deploy the chute. Neither of these will fit into the black box with the electronics and still work. If the brake lines or parachute are blown off the car in an explosion, they won't work. It is not an easy fix.

Well said - actually there is no fix for cars that suffer a disasterous failure on tracks that were constructed for cars running 100 mph slower. There are too many tracks that can't be fixed. S0 . . . slow em down. Don't need to obsolete every fuel motor by going to one mag. One pump and 100% Nitro - cackle is back and no rev limiter to blow it up on every pass! - JMHO

 

[Mike]

I've been thinking about this... what is one thing that will stop something dead in it's tracks?

Water/muck

Would it be possible to, starting about the midway point of a sand trap (let's face it, a car that gets that far in there is going at a good clip anyway), for the water to be incorporated, to the extent that the farther in you go (nearing the net), the water gets deeper, maybe up to a max of 1 or 2 feet deep (or, change from sand to dirt/clay about 1/2 way through the sand trap, but wet it so that it's sloppy mucky stuff that sticks to the bottom of your shoes).

I know car owners may not relish the thought of having to clean off bodies/parts, but it beats having to put people in a stretcher, and I've seen enough people driving into water (again, not deep lakes, just a foot or 2), or into mud, to know that will take a lot of velocity away quickly.

Even in a worst case scenario, if a driver were unconscious, their head should still be far enough off the ground that they wouldn't drown in the event the Safety Safari couldn't get there within a minute, which they normally are.

No, I'm not wanting a mud bog, so please don't even go there. Just trying to think outside the box... if this were in place at Etown, may it have trashed the car but saved Scott's life?

 

[Toejam]

I think a Water barrier would stop any car at any speed! 2000 gallons of water can absorb several G's of energy!

 

[clwill]

I think this is all good thinking. Take the car part out of it. Assume an unconscious driver in a completely incapacitated car.

We need to involve some smart safety people in figuring out how to stop a 3000lb object going 330mph without exceeding a safe number of Gs. It's just a physics problem.

As I said in another thread, if smart crew chiefs can make a driver safely accelerate from 0 - 330+ in 1320 feet, seems that smart safety people should be able to do the opposite.

 

[Chi-Town Brown]

I think a Water barrier would stop any car at any speed! 2000 gallons of water can absorb several G's of energy!

And the driver that is not conscious and gets upside down in the water?