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Another Nitro tech question on blocks - Dart vs AJ vs KB vs Force. (1 Viewer)

L

LoPony

Nitro Member
I see most teams (except Force’s) use AJ. There are 4 bolt main blocks out there (as in 4 vertical bolts + 2 horizontal), but can someone give us a rundown on comparisons between all these? Looks like AJ blocks are 2 bolt vertical + 2 horizontal? I’m guessing Forces’ teams keep theirs “secret”, though.

These engines are obviously greatly exceeding the power vs. material quality that can be had. Why all the main stud pulling? Can’t they design materials-related fix in? Clearly this isn’t easy, since the mfg’s would have already done this if it was easy, but why one “brand” vs the other right now?

No knowledge on Fuel billet blocks here except what I’ve posted. Very happy for information.

Thanks!
 
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These blocks / heads today are so much better than the aluminum castings that came out in the early 1970's, like Donovan, KB, Milodon.
 
Cliff said:
These blocks / heads today are so much better than the aluminum castings that came out in the early 1970's, like Donovan, KB, Milodon.
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Even though these blocks are forged billets they have strength limitations do to the configuration that is allowed. As far as Anyone’s block goes they all have the same critical dimensions. You can change the oiling and bolt placement as well as the lower support as well as stiffner’s. NHRA also says anything that you make has to be approved and available if you demand it, but why when everything related to it would be proprietary.
 
I don't think KB ever made a billet Hemi for nitro applications.... which has been required by the NHRA for many years at this point... and that means KB has been out of the Nitro Hemi block business ever since then.

AJ was a major supplier of blocks and heads to the nitro teams but ever since Schumacher, Force, and Kalitta all started making their own blocks, heads, rods, etc... I have to believe the demand for AJs parts has been greatly reduced.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Here is an add-on topic.

Which block designs are approved for blown fuel teams that don’t make their own?

Of course there’s AJPE, I’ve seen a Dart, who are the others?

I saw on Millican’s channel a year or so ago they tossed in a 6 bolt main block (4 vertical, two horizontal), where currently there is a 4 bolt design they use (two vert, two horizontal). They didn’t say which block design it was but they remarked that it was “tougher” and if so, why don’t they use that design?

So, why would a ”non-factory” team choose AJPE vs other designs (besides personal preference or availability). Any rationale?

Thanks again. Very informative!

*edit added* Looks like Salinas runs a TFX, while other cars, if not their own engine, use AJPE. The Kalitta bunch uses AJPE, by the way. Also looks like TFX is AJPE. Not up on the nomenclature…confusing.
 
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Current blocks that are used in TF & FC; AJPE (TFX), DSM, JFR, Dart, Kalitta, BAE, Point One, and Energy Manufacturing.

Some design differences you'll see between the blocks are how the main caps installs into the block and the "side window" designs. When the rods break and kick out the side of the block, this window is designed to break first. The window is a reparable area on the block and reduces the changes of scrapping a block after an explosion. There are some differences in the main caps, in terms of how its supported by the block.

NHRA has tight restrictions on all the performance aspects, Bore Space & Size, Camshaft Location & Size, Lifter Location & Size. So the majority of variance between the manufacturers is where the material is around those component locations.

The 6 bolt main blocks are still a relatively new product. It first came into competition in late 2019. Teams still have inventory of the 4 bolt main blocks, to which are still good blocks to use. Likely its just the fact that they haven't serviced out all of their 4 bolt main blocks yet.
 
Gorman426 said:
Current blocks that are used in TF & FC; AJPE (TFX), DSM, JFR, Dart, Kalitta, BAE, Point One, and Energy Manufacturing.

Some design differences you'll see between the blocks are how the main caps installs into the block and the "side window" designs. When the rods break and kick out the side of the block, this window is designed to break first. The window is a reparable area on the block and reduces the changes of scrapping a block after an explosion. There are some differences in the main caps, in terms of how its supported by the block.

NHRA has tight restrictions on all the performance aspects, Bore Space & Size, Camshaft Location & Size, Lifter Location & Size. So the majority of variance between the manufacturers is where the material is around those component locations.

The 6 bolt main blocks are still a relatively new product. It first came into competition in late 2019. Teams still have inventory of the 4 bolt main blocks, to which are still good blocks to use. Likely its just the fact that they haven't serviced out all of their 4 bolt main blocks yet.
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For the life of me, I could not remember the name of the company Energy Manufacturing. I believe Dart is just the retailer/distributor for them. Not a manufacturer of the blocks themselves for fuel racing.

I may be wrong, but I think that is the way it works. Never heard of Point One.

Thanks Joey.
 
r2 said:
For the life of me, I could not remember the name of the company Energy Manufacturing. I believe Dart is just the retailer/distributor for them. Not a manufacturer of the blocks themselves for fuel racing.

I may be wrong, but I think that is the way it works. Never heard of Point One.

Thanks Joey.
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Alan Johnson bought John Rodic's company "TFX" (TFX was in Paso Robles) over ten years ago. That's where the confusion might be? I think Rodic still makes the Donavan style 392 blocks that the nostalgia racers use? although I think they are sold by someone else (use to be Dale Emery)
If I remember right, and after reading an earlier post, the early billet blocks were cast, then run thru a forging/heat treating process before machining and sold as billet blocks, they were very strong.
 
Gorman426 said:
Current blocks that are used in TF & FC; AJPE (TFX), DSM, JFR, Dart, Kalitta, BAE, Point One, and Energy Manufacturing.

Some design differences you'll see between the blocks are how the main caps installs into the block and the "side window" designs. When the rods break and kick out the side of the block, this window is designed to break first. The window is a reparable area on the block and reduces the changes of scrapping a block after an explosion. There are some differences in the main caps, in terms of how its supported by the block.

NHRA has tight restrictions on all the performance aspects, Bore Space & Size, Camshaft Location & Size, Lifter Location & Size. So the majority of variance between the manufacturers is where the material is around those component locations.

The 6 bolt main blocks are still a relatively new product. It first came into competition in late 2019. Teams still have inventory of the 4 bolt main blocks, to which are still good blocks to use. Likely its just the fact that they haven't serviced out all of their 4 bolt main blocks yet.
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Joey, thanks. That’s the type of info I was looking for, just because I wanted to know. Much appreciated.
 
LAZYC said:
Alan Johnson bought John Rodic's company "TFX" (TFX was in Paso Robles) over ten years ago. That's where the confusion might be? I think Rodic still makes the Donavan style 392 blocks that the nostalgia racers use? although I think they are sold by someone else (use to be Dale Emery)
If I remember right, and after reading an earlier post, the early billet blocks were cast, then run thru a forging/heat treating process before machining and sold as billet blocks, they were very strong.
Click to expand...
Sorry to be the spelling cop, but let's get the name corrected TFX = John Rodeck
 
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