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Tour John Force Race Shop

Frank

Nitro Member
#4
Thanks for sharing. I've always wanted to go to the open houses the teams have during Indy, but I can never pull myself away from the Hemi Challenge which runs on the Friday they give the tours, :) Seeing these videos really gives you a good idea what the price is to play at this level. Just crazy.
 

Huge

Nitro Member
#5
Thanks for sharing. I've always wanted to go to the open houses the teams have during Indy, but I can never pull myself away from the Hemi Challenge which runs on the Friday they give the tours, :) Seeing these videos really gives you a good idea what the price is to play at this level. Just crazy.
When you see all of the money invested and all of the people involved with these high dollar mega teams it really makes the smaller budget 1 car teams look pretty amazing that they can even come close to competing on the same level.
 

mick

Nitro Member
#6
funny how the math is getting now. one of these large teams mite spend 3-4 million to win a $500k champion's paycheck.
plus the overhead of race shop, employees and inventory. someone like wilk mite spend 2 mill to finish in top 10.
i can appreciate both approaches.
 

Reese

Nitro Member
#7
Thanks for sharing. I've always wanted to go to the open houses the teams have during Indy, but I can never pull myself away from the Hemi Challenge which runs on the Friday they give the tours, :) Seeing these videos really gives you a good idea what the price is to play at this level. Just crazy.
You might be able to make it this year since Mopar pulled the Hemi Challenge $$ but they should still have a good showing for SS/AH class.
 

Bruno

Nitro Member
#8
funny how the math is getting now. one of these large teams mite spend 3-4 million to win a $500k champion's paycheck.
plus the overhead of race shop, employees and inventory. someone like wilk mite spend 2 mill to finish in top 10.
i can appreciate both approaches.
I still do not see how the numbers add up. I think we all are way off on what they need to get for backing. Look at it this way:
  • DSR has 7 teams and if they got $4m per team = $28M
  • DSR has some 125 employees. Figuring $60K average per employee with taxes, etc (crew guys can be in the $30K plus and crew chiefs in the $200k plus)=$7.5M
  • shop space of near 150,000 sf - payment, build out, insurance, utilities, etc
  • 20 tractor trailers - insurance, cost of the vehicles, OTR taxes, fuel, etc, etc.
  • New addition of CNC shop = $7-$10M per the video posted
  • raw materials to build parts with the machines
  • chassis, bodies, spare parts in inventory
  • now you have to get to the races, travel expenses, hotels, food, blow up your stuff, try to win some pittance of prize money...
Obviously, it works for DSR and Force but "the Don" is "The Donald" when it comes to business savvy. Kalitta doesn't count as he owns an airline. I just don't see how that size business can function with a gross income of $28-$30M per year.
 

Muddy

Nitro Member
#9
Just out of curiosity, where does the 4 million figure come from? Seems like I remember Snake quoting a figure of 6 to 8 million per car several years ago. Half to fund it and the other half to maintain and support it. Perhaps that was total dollars for his operation but that's not the way I remember it
 

Randy

Nitro Member
#12
Racing returns vs cost to do it has never made sense. It's not just drag racing. NASCAR teams survive on sponsor money, people bringing money to the table, souvenir sales, etc. They would never survive on purses alone. In professional golf the old saying was "10% of the professional golfers make 90% of the money, and 90% of the professional golfers make 10% of the money." Many of them live and eat out of motorhomes on the road hoping for that big payday.
 
#13
It may be more now but a while back, They where saying that when a fuel car goes down the track, $9,000 per pass. I am a far cry from a bean counter but if they make 8 passes a $9,000 = $72,000 and multiply that by 24 races you get $1,728,000 for the year. At $9,000 a pass, I was thinking that they were factoring in parts, crew labor, fuel, lodging, and other expenses but I guess I'm way off from the 4 million that they are asking for. Sure, I can bet that the $9,000 per pass doesn't include the team's home shop, chassis fabrication, employees, and parts stock needed to run the 24 races. But, That figure may Just cover the on the road expenses Only if stuff doesn't break.
 

Butch

Nitro Member
#14
Hard to compare from the days of The Ridge Route Terroirs I keep seeing in my mind that black and white photo of the guys in that old garage.
 

Bruno

Nitro Member
#16
Racing returns vs cost to do it has never made sense. It's not just drag racing. NASCAR teams survive on sponsor money, people bringing money to the table, souvenir sales, etc. They would never survive on purses alone. In professional golf the old saying was "10% of the professional golfers make 90% of the money, and 90% of the professional golfers make 10% of the money." Many of them live and eat out of motorhomes on the road hoping for that big payday.
Why am I reminded of "Tin Cup"?! :)
 

NJ4MULA

Nitro Member
#17
4 million is about right......DSM also sells parts for fuel cars so I am sure that helps
I would also imagine, and this is just a guess, that if it takes 4 to 5 million to run one car, you could run two on 7 to 9, three on 9 to 12, so forth and so on. There are some resources that "could" be combined that you'd be paying for no matter if you have 1, 2 or 3 cars. Not saying those resources are combined, but some could be. Also, if you're using 2, 3 4 times the amount of consumables, you can usually get better pricing.
 

Nunz

Nitro Member
#18
Formula one teams spend 200+ MILLION per year for a trophy. No winners purse or even a year end Championship paycheck. Now, they have a financial structure unique to that series, but here in the states, as Randy stated, there aren't any racing series that make financial sense without being underwritten by a backer.
 

Nunz

Nitro Member
#19
You might be able to make it this year since Mopar pulled the Hemi Challenge $$ but they should still have a good showing for SS/AH class.
I know it was a rumor, but is it official that there is no more Hemi Challenge at Indy? That would be a real shame, it's not like it was a zillion dollars.
 

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