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Lack of track prep

none

Nitro Member
#61
I am absolutely saying that I don't want Top Fuel break out racing.
You are correct that if you don't run them on MAX they will be easier on parts, but if you are racing someone and you don't try to get the maximum performance out of your car, then I hope it's my car in the other lane.

Alan
 

DG

Nitro Member
#62
My biggest beef is the lane to lane advantage at so many tracks! I have no idea how to fix it, but sometimes lane choice is an almost absolute indication of who goes on to the next round!
 
#63
We both agree that running them on max causes the problems. So, to me, the only way to get them to stop running them on max, is to take away the advantage of running them max out. To restrict any other way just leads to maxing out other aspects. A speed limit doesn't favor one team over another, it doesn't make any parts obsolete, in your earlier post you said they proved it would drop breakage, thus saving teams money, saving clean up, time & cost.
Fans still get to see 300MPH, whether they go 1,000ft or full 1/4mi.
What's not to like.??
 

MM

Nitro Member
#64
We both agree that running them on max causes the problems. So, to me, the only way to get them to stop running them on max, is to take away the advantage of running them max out. To restrict any other way just leads to maxing out other aspects. A speed limit doesn't favor one team over another, it doesn't make any parts obsolete, in your earlier post you said they proved it would drop breakage, thus saving teams money, saving clean up, time & cost.
Fans still get to see 300MPH, whether they go 1,000ft or full 1/4mi.
What's not to like.??
If you put a speed limit on them all you're going to see is the same setups with the drivers guessing where they need to lift. And if you think that's not how they would handle having a capped speed limit, you're kidding yourself. I, for one, do not want to watch a race between two fuel cars lifting 300 feet before the finish line.
 
#65
So... are we saying that we want TF to become TD-like??? If a TF car goes too quick, that run gets DQ'd?

I'm with Alan on this. When you are on the other side of the ropes, you are always gonna search for the edge.
EXACTLY, that's why if you remove the need to go faster, & faster, you eliminate the problems caused by it.
To your question, yes. Lets say the limit is 305mph, if you get there first and run 304.99 or less you win, 305, or more you lose. Probably 75% of the cars are running against a limit now, it's just they are limited by ET instead of mph.
In the fuel classes we are approaching the integrity of the tires, so speed is the problem not time, that's why I suggest a limit of speed not ET, but you could do an ET limit if you want.
 
#66
If you put a speed limit on them all you're going to see is the same setups with the drivers guessing where they need to lift. And if you think that's not how they would handle having a capped speed limit, you're kidding yourself. I, for one, do not want to watch a race between two fuel cars lifting 300 feet before the finish line.
why do you think they would run it on kill & lift early? You'd still have the breakage, & smoke runs. Crew chiefs will set up to run the limit, at the stripe.
 

MM

Nitro Member
#67
why do you think they would run it on kill & lift early? You'd still have the breakage, & smoke runs. Crew chiefs will set up to run the limit, at the stripe.
Because they don't care about breakage and smoke runs. Has that not been proven in the past decade? They will run the car on wreck if that's what it takes to win. And it's always better to have all the power the track will take, rather than just enough to run the number. It's why you see 200+ mph dragsters running in 8.90 super comp.
 

Stan

Nitro Member
#68
So you want the worlds fasts bracket racers.

They will still smoke the tires and blow stuff up. Because while you have put a speed limit on them the quicker et will still most often win. Just set the "RPM limiter" to the right spot and see who can get there first and stay there for the rest of the distance.

Stan
 

Nunz

Nitro Member
#69
I think this is the best solution, even guys like Ed the Ace agree. And, there have been some stout numbers even since the new prep went into affect. Lastly, let’s not ever reduce the nitro percentage, 5% really neutered the sound of the fuel cars, hard to believe but it did.
 

ironpony

Nitro Member
#70
maybe try delay boxes................
NHRA Worlds Fastest Bracket Racing.
Limit ET and speed it willl just be another nail in the coffin.
Nitro the greatest show on earth, let them go it will eventually self control. They will have to reel themselves in, blowing up and smoking tires will lose fan base
I believe we are at the limits of the mechanical side, especially tires.
Crossing the stripe at 330 mph, black tracking, what is the tire actually spinning ?? 350-360 mph ??
Alan do you know the answer to this, if not could you find out??
 

Pete

Nitro Member
#71
Paul,

Not arguing, just asking. If you think the solution is "Simple" then what would you do?

Most of us insiders agree that the cars need to be pulled back a little. They don't need to be going 340 MPH to put on a good show. The cost is also ridiculous to run them that hard. Not sure how mechanical you are, but in throw down conditions it's very common for a set of connecting rods to make one run, then go in the trash, or a crankshaft to have a life span of three runs. When even the Schumachers of the world think it's expensive that's saying something.

Here's my theory, if you have more traction than power, then you will always be running the engine at 110% capacity trying to squeeze every last ounce of performance from it to go fast. And any mechanical device being run at max speed and load is going to have a short life.

But: If you have more power than traction, you automatically have to dial back the power level to get it to the ground, that will make the parts last longer, and should also minimize the explosions that come along with pushing parts past their limit.
The crew chiefs know how to do this, when the track temp is 140 in the summer they know they can't utilize all the power, so they back down the power, and nobody has to buy any new stuff, use what you have and don't beat it up so badly.


I talked about this on WFO Radio a few weeks back, there's also an interesting interview with Ed McCulloch on competition plus about the subject.

Saying the track is unsafe is completely wrong, there is simply a little less traction. Again, when we're in Norwalk, or Sonoma and the track temp is 135+ is the track unsafe? Of course not. Can you set records? Also, of course not. Because you don't have as much grip, so you back up the power to match the grip. Just like they are having to do now.

All of this is my opinion.

Alan
I think the complaints from people are because so many runs are aborted or lost due to tire smoke.
My opinion is they have done the right thing. The costs of building combinations around part limitations will drive some teams out. Reducing traction is an across the board fix for all, it will simply take time for the tuners to figure out combinations for this type of prep. Once they find it, the rate of successful runs will increase again.

It reminds me of racers who have complained they only run 1/4 mile because their cars aren’t setup for 1/8th mile...ummmm
 

Jer

Nitro Member
#72
maybe try delay boxes................
NHRA Worlds Fastest Bracket Racing.
Limit ET and speed it willl just be another nail in the coffin.
Nitro the greatest show on earth, let them go it will eventually self control. They will have to reel themselves in, blowing up and smoking tires will lose fan base
I believe we are at the limits of the mechanical side, especially tires.
Crossing the stripe at 330 mph, black tracking, what is the tire actually spinning ?? 350-360 mph ??
Alan do you know the answer to this, if not could you find out??
delay boxes,lol. Everytime i see car pull up with a delay box,its consession stand time or bathroom break lol
 

Jeff

Nitro Member
#74
Ultimately, it seems like less traction will bring more TF/FC cars into the staging lanes. My issue is that doing it with the same tire width as the old way puts so much emphasis on the consistency of the track prep. I would rather have less traction as a result of LESS TIRE and then give some margin to the track prep. I think the radial vs the world series, aside from being very well promoted, are popular because of the tire, not because of the track prep ... albeit both will always be important.

Changing tire widths would also give a new baseline for record runs that more people can relate to.
 
#75
Ultimately, it seems like less traction will bring more TF/FC cars into the staging lanes. My issue is that doing it with the same tire width as the old way puts so much emphasis on the consistency of the track prep. I would rather have less traction as a result of LESS TIRE and then give some margin to the track prep. I think the radial vs the world series, aside from being very well promoted, are popular because of the tire, not because of the track prep ... albeit both will always be important.

Changing tire widths would also give a new baseline for record runs that more people can relate to.
So you're saying instead of reducing track prep, develop a new tire and force the owners to shoulder yet another expense instead of tuning the current combination to current track conditions?
 

ironpony

Nitro Member
#78
So you're saying instead of reducing track prep, develop a new tire and force the owners to shoulder yet another expense instead of tuning the current combination to current track conditions?


they buy new tires constantly so what would be the added expense???? IIRC the last time Goodyear revised tires the teams complained of less traction too
 

Huge

Nitro Member
#80
they buy new tires constantly so what would be the added expense???? IIRC the last time Goodyear revised tires the teams complained of less traction too
Who do you think will pay the cost for Goodyear to develop a new tire? I don't think a new tire is needed. I think we need to give the teams some more time to figure out their hot track tune ups. They are already getting their cooler track tune ups down. The finals were awesome today.
 

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