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Elite changed chassis?

#21
It's more of a carbon fiber tube than a "wrap". Sold in roughly the same size as the tube that goes inside a roll of gift wrapping paper ... but the tube only goes around 65% to 75% so with the aid of some double sided tape it can protect the pipe underneath from being scratched (typically that pipe is painted or powder coated).

The carbon fiber look steering wheels are typically dipped ... you can see the weld beads of the aluminum they are made with.
Thank you for an intelligent answer for a change . OOH OOH
 

Con

Nitro Member
#24
Based on the Houston race the value of a used RJ racecar could be reduced. That is a RJ car in the adv.

It will be interesting at the next race to see if the Elite team cars are the same Jerry Haas cars they used in Houston. My guess they will use the same cars.
 

Randy

Nitro Member
#25
I think a lot of this is follow the leader. "That guy goes fast so I have to have what that guy has." Happens in every class of racing. Happened in Top Alcohol Funny Car when I ran it for 25 years. There is an old saying. "There's a million ways to go slow, but only one to go fast."

I spoke to a current NHRA Pro Stock multi car team owner I've known for years when shopping for a car for myself, and he said Rick Jones' cars are second to none with regard to quality, fit and finish. He also said many feel the chassis tuning window is larger on a Haas car compared to other manufacturers of pro stock cars. He buys Haas. More people run Haas cars so there's more data on them. But like someone said, a lot of them are rebodied older cars (possible years old) and they have a lot of data on them. You don't see many two or three year old cars for sale very often.

When I was researching Pro Stock Camaro options to run in Top Sportsman I heard in the pits all the reasons to buy from every one of the chassis builders (including opinions on Bickel's cars not mentioned here) and I heard all all the reasons to avoid every one of them, too. I like nice stuff so in the end I was purposely looking for a Rick Jones' car. I spoke to Rick Jones about building a new car but the price meant I would have to put my retirement plans back a week or two. Rick, and the guys I talked to there, are great guys BTW.

A few weeks ago I finally found what I was looking for. A Pro Stock Camaro built by Rick Jones that has won in IHRA, that has been very well taken care of by it's owner, crew and crew chief, and has very low runs on it. It's run in the 6.20's at 226 without nitrous straight as an arrow. I just bought it as a roller less engine and trans and I'm waiting for it to be shipped to me. Plus it's my favorite color (see avatar).

These are file photos:

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1524632969855.png
 

Con

Nitro Member
#28
I don't think it is a question of the quality of the RJ car. Your comment of the Haas car having a larger tuning window fits in with what I heard.

I was told the Elite engines had the horsepower. But getting it to the track was the problem. RJ cars were good when pro stock was using carbs. Erica did win 2 championships. But with the fuel injection the RJ cars did not perform as well. The "characteristic", for want of a better term, of the power from the injected engine is a little different than the carb engine. The RJ cars did not adjust to that as well the Haas cars.

With Enders and Jeg switching to Haas cars and running better at Houston that seems to reflect that idea. Even though the cars they have are older.

If people want variety in the class. Have someone take a used Haas chassis, have them reskin it as a Mustang, put in a Elite Chevy engine and run pro stock. That would be interesting.
 

Bruno

Nitro Member
#30
I think a lot of this is follow the leader. "That guy goes fast so I have to have what that guy has." Happens in every class of racing. Happened in Top Alcohol Funny Car when I ran it for 25 years. There is an old saying. "There's a million ways to go slow, but only one to go fast."

I spoke to a current NHRA Pro Stock multi car team owner I've known for years when shopping for a car for myself, and he said Rick Jones' cars are second to none with regard to quality, fit and finish. He also said many feel the chassis tuning window is larger on a Haas car compared to other manufacturers of pro stock cars. He buys Haas. More people run Haas cars so there's more data on them. But like someone said, a lot of them are rebodied older cars (possible years old) and they have a lot of data on them. You don't see many two or three year old cars for sale very often.

When I was researching Pro Stock Camaro options to run in Top Sportsman I heard in the pits all the reasons to buy from every one of the chassis builders (including opinions on Bickel's cars not mentioned here) and I heard all all the reasons to avoid every one of them, too. I like nice stuff so in the end I was purposely looking for a Rick Jones' car. I spoke to Rick Jones about building a new car but the price meant I would have to put my retirement plans back a week or two. Rick, and the guys I talked to there, are great guys BTW.

A few weeks ago I finally found what I was looking for. A Pro Stock Camaro built by Rick Jones that has won in IHRA, that has been very well taken care of by it's owner, crew and crew chief, and has very low runs on it. It's run in the 6.20's at 226 without nitrous straight as an arrow. I just bought it as a roller less engine and trans and I'm waiting for it to be shipped to me. Plus it's my favorite color (see avatar).

These are file photos:

View attachment 4599

View attachment 4600

View attachment 4601
Nice piece! How will you power it?
 
#31
RJ cars were good when pro stock was using carbs. Erica did win 2 championships. But with the fuel injection the RJ cars did not perform as well. The "characteristic", for want of a better term, of the power from the injected engine is a little different than the carb engine. The RJ cars did not adjust to that as well the Haas cars.
Isn't that wild? It blows me away how temperamental those chassis (and all chassis, I suppose) can be in what appears to be comparable horsepower combinations. I realize the horsepower may still be down a smidge from the carb combination and that there is surely a much different power curve, but to think that a championship winning chassis doesn't appear to work after the switch to injection, with the cars running very similar numbers is amazing to me.

And, nice car, RG!

Sean D
 

none

Nitro Member
#32
The guys at Book racing engines are friends of mine. They were into the PS stuff for a while. He told me once that PS cars are so critical on every adjustment that it's scary. 1 gram of counter weight can be the difference from low ET to a DNQ. Wouldn't take much for a chassis to go from hero to zero with that window to work within. I'll bet the Elite / Jones guys are all over that Haas car and RJ will be back to the front sooner than later.
 
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Randy

Nitro Member
#33
The guys at Book racing engines are friends of mine. They were into the PS stuff for a while. He told me once that PS cars are so critical on every adjustment that it's scary. 1 gram of counter weight can be the difference from low ET to a DNQ. Wouldn't take much for a chassis to go from hero to zero with that window to work within. I'll bet the Elite / Jones guys are all over that Haas car and RJ will be back to the front sooner than later.
I agree, Marc. From what I've been told Haas is hands on with his customers and has 14-18 cars at any given event. If he's involved with just a few of them it's just more data. RJ has just a few so less data. In that case it would take more events to get the same amount of information if you are a chassis guy. Something the teams and sponsors may not have the patience for, but Erica's past performance speaks for itself concerning RJ cars.

Armand and Sean, I've never been a big pro stock fan and I have stayed away! I was one of those guys who left the stands to go to the bathroom when they rounded the corner to run their sessions. But I have been a top sportsman fan with all the different combinations and the wide variety of cars. And I've seen some that go pretty quick with very little maintenance compared to what I'm used to. I'm thinking about a 540 or 555 CI Chevrolet with a procharger on alcohol with a powerglide. Supposedly you pick the overdrive gear in the procharger unit and it can go from 2,100 hp to 2,500+ depending on your need for speed that day. With a good converter you leave off a button and with a 2 speed powerglide you can shift it somewhere around 8,000 or so rpm so the valve train is happy. It should run low to mid sixes if you choose to, or set it up to go a little slower and be more consistent. Main thing is you don't need to be babysitting nitrous bottles all weekend. I actually called Joe Fisher to buy his RJ Camaro he had for sale with this exact same combination the first of the year but Division 7 racer Chip Rumis beat me to it by one day. Chip's car runs great and from what he tells me there is very little to do to it at the races.

Leaving off a button with a torque converter and shifting once at a lower RPM with more power than you need makes the perfect chassis set up less (but still) important. Pro stock racers have everything on the ragged edge and it needs to be perfect to run the numbers. Top Sportsman? You just change the dial in. My biggest concern is getting my hat handed to me on the starting line. Seems like a .009 light isn't good enough sometimes.
 
#34
I agree, Marc. From what I've been told Haas is hands on with his customers and has 14-18 cars at any given event. If he's involved with just a few of them it's just more data.
Back in the late '90's, my Pops and I ran an ex-Barry Grant Cutlass in Super Gas that was a Haas car. The car was doing some weird sh!t at Indy one year and I wandered down to his Pro Stock Truck pits and asked for some advice. He asked me where I was pitted, told me to get the rear tires off the car and that he would, "be there in a minute". I thought for sure he was just going to blow me off, but sure enough, about 10 minutes later he came rolling up on the scooter. He looked at it for less than 30 seconds, told me what to do to the 4-link and rode off. That was way more than I had expected him to do, especially in the middle of Indy, but when I pulled into the water for the next pass, there he stood. A couple of hours later he cruised by our trailer and gave the thumbs-up on the way by and said, "That better?". Lol!

It's not like we were a big-name player in the Super Categories, let alone a professional team with one of his cars. For that matter, we didn't even buy it from him. It was just a second-hand piece. Told me a lot about the guy, that's for sure.

Sean D
 
#35
Back in the late '90's, my Pops and I ran an ex-Barry Grant Cutlass in Super Gas that was a Haas car. The car was doing some weird sh!t at Indy one year and I wandered down to his Pro Stock Truck pits and asked for some advice. He asked me where I was pitted, told me to get the rear tires off the car and that he would, "be there in a minute". I thought for sure he was just going to blow me off, but sure enough, about 10 minutes later he came rolling up on the scooter. He looked at it for less than 30 seconds, told me what to do to the 4-link and rode off. That was way more than I had expected him to do, especially in the middle of Indy, but when I pulled into the water for the next pass, there he stood. A couple of hours later he cruised by our trailer and gave the thumbs-up on the way by and said, "That better?". Lol!

It's not like we were a big-name player in the Super Categories, let alone a professional team with one of his cars. For that matter, we didn't even buy it from him. It was just a second-hand piece. Told me a lot about the guy, that's for sure.

Sean D
I love stories like these Sean. Good stuff.

PS I loved those Pro Stock Cutlasses, especially WJ's.
 

Randy

Nitro Member
#36
Sean I've heard similar stories about JH. He must look at all the cars he's built kinda like they're his "children". Doesn't matter who owns them or what class they are in now. He watches out for them.
 

none

Nitro Member
#37
.009. Piece of cake. you’ll do fine RG. That car of yours is stunning too. Although I kinda like the hood scoop. 900 inch FI Musi motor would get the job done too !
 

Randy

Nitro Member
#38
.009. Piece of cake. you’ll do fine RG. That car of yours is stunning too. Although I kinda like the hood scoop. 900 inch FI Musi motor would get the job done too !
Know of any second hand for sale? It had an 833 Sonny's in it with 5.100 bore center line.
 

FABMAN

Nitro Member
#40
Randy, beautful Camaro, I beleive the best combo would be 588 or 598 of course thats just an opinion. Joe Meyer and Dusty won Div 5 championship in Top Sportsman running Sonnys Power and run high 6s . So you dont have to have a a combo that runs low 6s to win, Consistant car low maintance hot rod is the way to go. Good Luck we will be watching
 

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